One of the greatest things to happen for car enthusiasts in recent years is the spread of relatively inexpensive power. The minivans of today can beat the supercars of old and you can buy a Jeep Grand Cherokee punching 707 horses out to all four wheels. In the 1990s, Jeep had a different super SUV that sold for just a single year. In 1998, you could drive home in the predecessor to Trackhawk and even the SRT8. The 1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited was the quickest vehicle that Jeep had ever built at the time and the fastest SUV on the road.
Last week, I wrote another unofficial Holy Grails entry with the Ford Focus Kona Mountain Bike Edition. While not the fastest or most sporty version of the Focus, the Kona Mountain Bike Edition is rare and obscure. It’s a Focus ZX3 hatch in a special “dirt” color with a Kona mountain bike on its roof, removable seat covers, and its own trim. This car has the distinction of being perhaps the only car where owners got recall letters that had nothing to do with the car itself. After I wrote that article, a Kona Mountain Bike Edition owner reached out to me with pictures showing a perfect time capsule. I love that every car out there has someone who loves it. I bet there are even diehard Chevy Aveo lovers somewhere in the universe!
This week, we’re returning to our regular Holy Grails format where you, the readers, suggest the coolest versions of perhaps otherwise mundane cars. Today’s entry is something that would normally be up David Tracy’s alley. After all, he’s owned more Jeeps than I’ve owned Smarts! This is neither a Ford, a Mazda, or a Volkswagen AG product, but a Jeep. For just a single year, you could buy a 1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited, a V8-powered super SUV that was not just the fastest vehicle ever produced by Jeep (at the time), but the fastest SUV on the market tested by magazines at the time.
Initially The Replacement For The Cherokee XJ
As MotorTrend writes, the vehicle that became the Grand Cherokee was originally supposed to be the successor to the XJ Cherokee. In 1985, the American Motors Corporation brought on three designers under contract to make a clay model for the XJC. Larry Shinoda, Adam Clenet, and ItalDesign’s Giorgetto Giugiaro were chosen. As Wards Auto writes, the designers were given the task to create four versions of the XJC: a four-door, a two-door, and two pickups. The winning designer was reportedly set to get a huge payout.
During this time, AMC was figuring out how to speed up development to be more competitive with its bigger Detroit competition. To do this, designers and engineers would develop the XJC using computer-aided design and all drawings and documents were stored in a central database. This allowed faster work as drawings were able to be done on computers rather than on drafting tables. And since everything was accessible through a central system, problems were able to be quickly resolved. When Chrysler purchased AMC in 1987, this system-today known as product lifecycle management was further implemented in the company.
The Grand Cherokee would see a delay before it made its debut in 1992 for the 1993 model year.
But when it did, the new Jeep smashed onto the scene, literally. Chrysler president Bob Lutz drove one through a window at the 1992 Detroit auto show. Shinoda went to the show and it was there he reportedly learned that Chrysler had gone with his design and didn’t uphold its end of the contract.
Here’s his telling of it from Wards Auto:
Two high-ranking AMC product-development executives “went into my studio in my absence,” Mr. Shinoda declared. “I was asked to depart because they did not want any complications.
“I was called on a Friday night and told my design was ‘terrible, brutal,'” Mr. Shinoda said. “I was ordered to stop all work and return AMC’s wheels and tires, and dispose of the clay model.”
Mr. Shinoda said he entered the studio the next day, Saturday, and found an AMC crew on the premises. “The walls were stripped of all my drawings, and they had all the wood templates used to build the clays, which were being digitized so they could make a copy,” he complained.
“Two people AMC hired and who worked with me called and told me that the company was doing my model,” Mr. Shinoda said. “I didn’t want to make a fuss because under the terms of my contract, I couldn’t say anything for five years, or until 1990.
“I still did not comment until 1992 when I saw the Grand Cherokee at the Auto Show. My contract called for $354,000 but all I got was $135,000. They still owed me $177,000.”
The Grand Cherokee went onto to be a hit out of the park, and Shinoda sued for a part of the profits to over a million Grand Cherokees sold. The case raged on for five years before it settled for an undisclosed amount right before his death in November 1997.
Luxury 4×4
As for the Cherokee itself, there are a number of reasons behind its popularity. The unibody SUV was stiff competition for the Ford Explorer and came with standard features like a driver airbag and an Electronic Vehicle Information Center computer that monitored the SUV’s systems. That EVIC system had a screen that gave the driver information like the date and time or the service interval of their vehicle. Of course, if you’ve driven one of these you’ve probably noticed the trip computer giving you information like your compass heading, outside temperature, or fuel range remaining. Other available features included keyless entry and a glowing ring around the ignition cylinder for nighttime ease.
Many of those features weren’t exclusive to the Grand Cherokee. As a kid, I remember watching the green glow of that trip computer but in a Dodge Caravan. As an adult, I bought a second-generation Dodge Grand Caravan that had that same system.
In terms of power, the Grand Cherokee offered as small as the 4.0-liter AMC straight-six making 190 HP and 225 lb-ft torque. And for most of the ZJ’s run, the biggest engine was a 5.2-liter Magnum V8 making 225 HP and 300 lb-ft torque.
The Grail
For the ZJ’s final year in 1998, you could get your Grand Cherokee with a 5.9-liter V8 making 245 HP and 345 lb-ft torque. Reader and Vinyl member Factoryhack says this is the one to get:
1998 ZJ Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited.
The last model year of the first generation Grand Cherokee (ZJ) in 1998 was most definitely a good one. At the top of the ZJ line-up were trims like Limited, Orvis, and Grand Wagoner, (with excellent fake woodgrain) which were all pretty awesome in their own way.
And yet, the big dog of them all was the 5.9 Limited. They only made 15,000 of them out of a 250,000 production run for that one year only.
Keep in mind this was back when Chrysler was still feeling pretty cocky and had developed some crazy stuff like the Viper and Prowler just prior to the era when those bastards at Daimler had time to ruin the party for good.
The 5.9 Limited was essentially a regular Limited except they dropped in the 5.9 Magnum engine and 46RE transmission from the 1500 truck.
245 HP and 345 lb. ft. of torque was heady stuff in an SUV back then. Both Motor Trend and Road and Track tests showed a 6.8 second 0-60 time for this beast. The Quadra-Trac AWD with a 3.73 Trac-loc made it super easy to launch and surprise a lot of people at stop lights who had no idea what was next to them, unless they were very sharp and noticed the heat extractors on the hood.
It was the fastest SUV in the market that year, which supposedly wasn’t surpassed until the SRT-8 Grand Cherokee came out 10 years later, if you believe Google.
I worked for DaimlerChrysler back then and somehow talked our field car guy into letting me order a 5.9 Limited for my company shooter. It was a blast. Mine was white and had the standard puffy light gray calf leather seats along with Infinity sound and all the luxurious options you could get which were pretty much standard. I drove it for something like 6 months until it was time to turn it in for auction. I still miss that thing.
I haven’t seen one in the wild for at least 10 years as most of them are probably rusted out or worn out.
A Holy Grail indeed.
Sure enough, this SUV dazzled the automotive press. In a retrospective, MotorTrend, marvels at how the Grand Cherokee wasn’t like the Grand Cherokee SRT of today with its independent suspension. No, this SUV had a pair of solid axles and a low-range operated with a lever. This was a posh SUV with a lot of firepower for its day, but it was still a competent off-roader at heart. It raced to 60 mph in 6.8 seconds and completed the quarter in 15.2 seconds at 88.7 mph.
Today, those numbers aren’t hugely impressive; a 2022 Honda Odyssey LX makes 280 horses from a 3.5-liter V6 and hits 60 mph in a faster 6.5 seconds.
However, back then? The Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited was the fastest SUV tested by Motor Trend that year and it still maintained the off-road prowess that Jeep is known for. Road & Track says that it was the fastest SUV on the market in 1998. It should be noted, however, that the GMC Typhoon is more than a second faster to 60 mph.
In a comparison test against a GMC Yukon SLT, Dodge Durango SLT Plus, Mercedes- Benz ML320, Isuzu Rodeo S, Mazda B3000 SE and Mitsubishi Montero Sport LS, Petersen’s 4Wheel & Off-Road nominated the Jeep its 4×4 of the Year. And it wasn’t just the Jeep’s brute force that had it taking the crown.
The magazine said that despite its road-oriented rubber and suspension, it still wheeled better than the rest of the pack in sand, rocks, and dirt. 4Wheel & Off-Road even said that the Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited made the competition “seem painstakingly carlike.” Oof. Perhaps the best (or worst, depending on who you are) part about the SUV is that aside from hood louvers and subtle badging, it looked like every other Jeep Cherokee. That made it a sleeper.
My favorite part is how the magazine ended the review by saying that the Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited is perhaps the best ZJ ever, but the testers were sure that Jeep would come up with something even better. Of course, in the years since, Jeep has created crazy sequels like the 420 HP Grand Cherokee SRT8, the 475 HP SRT, and the 707 HP Trackhawk. According to MotorTrend, it took Jeep until 2006 to get back into the groove of making a fast version of the Grand Cherokee again.
So, by all means, this seems like the perfect 1990s SUV for the kind of person who wants power and luxury while not sacrificing off-road capability. Unfortunately, if you want one, finding a good one may take some time. Just 14,000 of these were ever produced, representing about one percent of all ZJ production. A quick search of my local classifieds on Facebook shows a bunch of them for sale, but only one is in what appears to be really good condition.
With that said, these do appear to be pretty obscure, and even nice ones go for cheap. That nice one in my area is just $5,750! Perhaps a part of that is related to what Motor Trend found during its testing. Apparently, nobody noticed the Jeep, likely thanks to its stealthy design. I see that as a good thing, as you can own a relatively rare sleeper SUV for what appears to be beater money.
(Note: A reader has pointed out that despite some period reviews saying that the hood louvers aren’t functional, they actually are. I found some for sale and sure enough, they are functional.)
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Hello,
the 5.9 was sold in Europe too and you can find rusty ones in Germany and cleaner ones in Italy like these two, although for 20K a piece
https://www.autoscout24.fr/offres/jeep-grand-cherokee-5-9-limited-lx-auto-essence-argent-220fbd68-be1b-44fc-884c-e36ec2ea8df7?utm_source=web-share&utm_medium=copy&utm_campaign=share
I bought a high-mileage one a couple years ago and it’s an incredible vehicle! I think the ZJ is possibly the best intersection of raw off-road capability and a comfortable ride in Jeeps, and I love that it’s a jack of all trades. I can still tow and go off-road unlike later performance Jeeps. It’s fun getting to tell people about it when they think the vents are fake or the exhaust is custom and well worth the worse mileage compared to the part-time 4wd and 4.0 models
I’ve owned more than 50 cars including 2 Jeep ZJs, and as a rule I’m not an off road or SUV guy. The first ZJ I bought was a 5.2, it was a cheap car when I needed one following a medical event that left me almost broke, and it served me well for 3 years. The next was a beater 4.0 I bought to run in the gambler 500. My plan was to sell it immediately after the race…. but it was so damn useful & reliable that 5 years later, with a spray paint paint job and 180k miles, it still sits in my driveway! The ZJ really does hit a sweet spot between comfort, simplicity, and off road talent. I’m jealous when I see a 5.9 and would buy a good one if it crossed my path.
“The case raged on for five years before it settled for an undisclosed amount right before his death in November 1997.”
This tidbit pissed me off, fucking corporate lawyers can eat shit and die.
I just came on here to say that I had a ‘98 Limited, deep green with factory gold accented wheels and a gold pinstripe and the 5.2. It was kind of used up when I got it and would dump all it’s oil if you drove 76 mph (but was fine under 74mph usually) but it was super cool and so solid in snow and I loved it and this article just makes me want to look for one of these 5.9s again. For anyone silly enough to actually buy one, I definitely saw several 5.9s floating around the Seattle area just a few years ago…
my neighbor had the exact spec but black as his first car (this was 2000 or so). It was a beast and I have some fond memories in that Jeep. Trips to the mountains, the George, etc. Transmission was junk though – constant issues with his.
I owned one in 2003. One owner, 36K, absolutely flawless, in the dark grey color (it’s actually not black, but a very dark metallic grey that looks black – I forget what they called the color). I was coming from a 1992 Explorer so this was a HUGE step up. It was absolutely wonderful. Comfortable, fast as hell, sounded amazing (I put on a Kolak cat-back with a Flowmaster 70), and you knew that you were driving something special. I was a huge ZJ fan since they were introduced, so getting the “grail version” was a no-brainer. Even back then they were tough to find; I got really lucky with mine and had to drive a few hours to get it.
I only owned it about six months which is probably why I still have fond memories of it. I sold it when I headed off to Europe for a while. Unfortunately I probably could never own one again, since, as stated, pretty much all the ones left are beat to hell and falling apart. It was nice to own one in its prime, and it’s probably the car I miss the most.
Got one a couple blocks from my house that I routinely walk my dog by in the chance that the owner is around and I can ask about it. It’s a California car so no rust but it’s on four flats and the paint is faded pretty bad.
Someone else on the same street had a Fox body Saleen SSC that was in pretty rough shape but man I wanted it bad.
Holy Grail at 15,000 for one year? The Isuzu Vehicross had a 5 year run with a third less production at 10,000.
Where are the Isuzus? Anyone ever think about Joe Isuzu anymore? Noooooo.
Awesome little ute. They only made 1,000 or so of the Ironman editions so yeah, that’s Holy Grail territory for sure.
I remember the 5.9 limited. My friends dad drove one in high school. He used it to tow his boat around the state and it worked really quite well. I remember it feeling really quick and it certainly had no problems hauling their 19 foot bowrider over hill and dale. We actually had at least 3 of these in my neighborhood growing up. There was a lot of Joneses in my neighborhood and they all had to have the same thing for some reason. There were at least 3 of the exact same Mastercraft Maristar as well. Silly.
Yeah, close but no cigar
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EJQNzryLnCo
One of the period ads (and by the looks of it, a display model at auto shows) for these had painted flames done in faux mud (brown paint and oatmeal mixed together I believe), always dug that.
Also, I think the illuminated ignition barrel ended up on quite a few Chrysler products of the era – my dad’s ’93 Sundance definitely had it (also, same steering wheel, lots of other shared parts bin parts).
Yes; the illuminated ignition switch (not cylinder, it’s actually part of the switch assembly) is standard on virtually every Chrysler product from… crap, 1989 I think? Basically anything that accepts either the Pentastar (Y152) or Y154 barrel up through FOBIK (round head.)
I’ve owned two Grand Cherokees of that vintage, but neither was the hot one unfortunately. I love the ZJ though and would happily own another one. I never shoveled my driveway when I owned a ZJ, I would just drive over that shit!
I miss the days of understated styling enhancements like the 5.9 Limited.
As a kid, a soccer teammate’s dad got one in platinum but I never got to ride in it. More recently, a buddy of mine sent me one he spotted that had some local tree service company decal on it – but it didn’t look like it was in use due to its condition, with dings around and the left rear cargo area window was busted out like a tree fought back while being removed or something.
So is this one then the Holiest Grail? The Holy Grailest?
“…but the fastest SUV ever tested by some magazines at the time.”
Tells a lot about which publications didn’t get there hands on a GMC Typhoon 5 years earlier.
That claim appears to have been made in error. I have sent a correction!
The confusion is coming from an article published on MotorTrend’s site, which seems to claim that the 5.9 is the fastest SUV it tested “…the quickest SUV MT had ever tested at that time.” That’s fine, and would just mean that MT didn’t test a Typhoon, right?
Well, the comments here made me curious, so I did some additional digging. MT tested a Typhoon in 1991, so maybe whoever wrote the retrospective didn’t notice? I suppose I didn’t, either, because I took their word for it!
During Mecum auctions, when a Typhoon or Syclone comes across, Bill Stephens basically loses his shit and has an attack of the vapors.
Just like with the Grand National, GM takes a V8, saws of two cylinders, throws in a split-pin crank, adds a turbo, and makes a drag monster.
Fastest SUV until 2008? My BS meter is going nuts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GMC_Typhoon
they used the word Jeep…..Fastest Jeep until 2008.
“However, back then? The Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited was the fastest SUV tested by magazines and it still maintained the off-road prowess that Jeep is known for. Road & Track says that it was the fastest SUV on the market that year.”
If you’re speaking for the specific year, absolutely. But considering C&D ran a GMC Typhoon to 60 in 5.3 seconds in 1992, it certainly wasn’t the fastest they’d ever tested to that point…
Entirely on-road-only, but an SUV nonetheless…
Direct quote from an Automobile article, published in MotorTrend:
“In 1997, our colleagues at MotorTrend tested the Grand Cherokee Limited 5.9. It reached 60 mph in 6.8 seconds and smoked the quarter-mile in 15.2 seconds at 88.7 mph. That made it well over a second quicker to the same mark than the next-quickest, 5.2-liter Grand Cherokee, and the quickest SUV MT had ever tested at that time.”
I think you’re right and they mean to say “fastest SUV on the market” not “fastest of all time.”
Edit: And the magazine did test a Typhoon in 1991, so the wording of the paragraph is weird. I should have known better!
In case anyone else was wondering like I was, here is the road test for the surprisingly slow LM002 from 1987:
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15142136/lamborghini-lm002-archived-instrumented-test-review/
This is a gem to read, back when C/D was the best in the business. One line in particular stood out, remember this was written 35 years ago! Time is truly a flat circle.
“first, as automobile design has come increasingly to acknowledge the laws of aerodynamics, cars have begun to look like cloned amoebas; second as the quest for individuality has spread to all segments of the market, the four-wheel-drive craze has moved upscale.”
I think the biggest issue with these were the Dana 44 made from aluminum out back. not much good off road and on road, it was a concern over time.
But I think the 99 and 2000 Durango RT was basically the same with a heavier duty rear axle.
Make you wonder what the 5.9 in a prowler would have actually done. the 3.5 v6 had more HP on paper, but they were not faster than this heavy ass brick. at least not until the later years.
Incorrect; the Durango R/T is a Chrysler C213 or 9-1/4″ rear axle with a standard 5.9 Magnum rated at 245HP and 330ft/lbs. Significantly less than the 5.9 Limited’s torque, and much heavier. Totally unrelated to ZJ development.
The 5.9 never would have worked in the Prowler; the 3.5 was the biggest they could fit, and it required a lot of massaging at that. They did build a Howler concept with the new (and absolute garbage) 4.7 V8 which was much smaller dimensionally.
the 3.5 was much wider because of the OHC design. I think the length and aforementioned cooling issues might have been the real issue though.
It’s very, very much absolutely not. Everyone wants to believe the 3.5 is wider, and I am telling you for 100% fact, it is much, much narrower than you think it is.
How much narrower? The 3.5 V6’s entire engine package is narrower than the belt. When you look at the 3.5 SOHC high output, those plastic runners at the top which loved to implode and be ingested? Those are the full width of the engine inclusive the manifolds.
Those engines are TINY. The alternator and A/C compressor are completely outboard of the block footprint. Remember, it’s not the 3.3 pushrod, or the 2.7 EER or 3.3 LH. It’s the EGG/EGJ/EGK – a 60 degree, SOHC, non-interference, all-alloy engine.
The minimum width of the LA block by comparison, is gargantuan. Despite being a ‘small block,’ it’s over 26″ wide before manifolds, and nearly 30″ long without pulleys.
The 3.5 EGJ? It fits entirely inboard of the front A-arms on a Prowler as measured at the inboard mounting points. If I recall correctly, somewhere around 20-22 inches.
People don’t understand just how much hackery had to go into the 5.9 Limited, even though it’s the exact same block dimensionally as the 5.2 (non-Magnum, alas.) None of the changes in the 5.9 Limited are cosmetic; every last change was functional. And all of it was deliberately understated. It was the swan song of the ZJ, but intended to be a ‘subtle’ one.
Those hood vents? Extremely functional; the 5.9 Magnum runs so much hotter than the 5.2 that it’s guaranteed overheating without those very large vents. Those vents are also it’s Achilles heel; they have no water deflection underneath. There wasn’t room. So rot is a very big problem. And it’s still not enough to really keep temperatures in check.
The tell-tale ‘crosshatch’ grille? That’s functional too. The stock ZJ grille has large vertical slats; they had to increase airflow to the cooling package. Significantly. Very, very significantly. It doesn’t just have a larger radiator; it has a larger A/C condenser and a larger transmission cooler. The airflow changes didn’t stop there either. The lower bumper cover also has 7 rectangular cutouts between the fog lights to provide more airflow – that’s 5.9 Limited specific too.
And what you were rewarded with if you bought one is hard to overstate, especially for 1998. The 5.9 Magnum’s party trick isn’t the understated 225HP (under optimal temperature conditions and with 93 octane, it’s closer to 240.) It’s the drastically understated 345ft/lbs making elevenses all the way down the street.
Forget getting that from an SUV in 1998, there was NOTHING on the market at a $39,245 price tag that offered the power and the luxury. Completely maxed out, the 5.9 Limited still came in at $40k. The Supra MkIV started at over $41,000 and getting anywhere near the ZJ’s options would set you back over $50k. The Lexus GS in comparable trim could top $56k.
And the experience of driving a 5.9 Limited can only be described as incomparable. Not entirely for good reasons. Because there wasn’t budget or time to completely overhaul the suspension or the brakes. Much less in a way that wouldn’t compromise the off-roading. So it’s pretty much all 5.2 parts underpinning a more than 20% jump in stated SAE torque. Yes, really, the gulf is that wide from the 5.2. It rolls hard just revving it.
It is both terrifying and exhilarating. When you depress the pedal, response is instantaneous and forceful. Throwing you back into six inches of plush, overstuffed recliner. And if you had the guts to touch the metal? It was genuinely fast, period. And it took a LOT of guts, because let’s just say the brakes aren’t great. Even before they massively overstressed the entire unibody and the chronic rot problems.
“That nice one in my area is just $5,750! “
And you need to buy it, Mercedes. You need to buy it. If it doesn’t have rot, just buy it. (But if it does have rot, run don’t walk.)
So, I often source these from reputable magazines and other outlets, preferably with anything written from the time. MotorTrend was seemingly a good source for this one, as the publication has been nice enough to keep old reviews still up.
This 1998 battle of the SUVs article says the louvers aren’t functional:
https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/battle-of-the-suv/
But after you countered, I had to check for myself. Thankfully, there are lots of these things for sale on eBay, and sure enough, you can see through the louvers. I now wonder if the MT testers actually checked or not!
Ayup; I actually know exactly what happened, and it’s actually kind of hilarious how that came about. Because of, well, basically everything going on with Chrysler back then – and particularly with the 5.9 Limited – some pre-production and press cars got a non-functional hood because they didn’t have the hood stampings available.
So MotorTrend is probably correct in saying the one they tested did not have functional vents. There actually were ‘stick-on’ versions. However, on the actual production cars, the vents are functional because they were found to be extremely necessary. It’s also one of the easiest ways to identify a fake or collision car; the production 5.9 Limited has a unique hood stamping AND insulator pad. If the hood isn’t ‘dip painted’ with stepped vent cutouts, it’s not the real deal hood.
So when are we going to hear about your first step into problem Jeep ownership? 😉
Hot damn, those are insights that I love to see in these comments! 🙂
Admittedly, I have been eying a Jeep, but not one of these. A Liberty CRD seems to be right up my alley!
I wish I could remember the precise source that verified it. I thought it was MT or C&D who asked and was told they had a pre-production hood, but I came up empty there. It’s out there somewhere.
And oh god no. Do not buy a Liberty, infinitely so the CRD. There’s ‘problem Jeeps’ and then there’s ‘irredemable shitboxes that will make the worst VW look dead reliable.’ And the Liberty CRD floored it when it saw the ‘irredemable shitbox’ sign. Seriously. Go look up what David would have had to do to pull the head on his minivan. The later 425 is even worse, and has absolutely none of the reliability. That’s why you can’t find them. Not because of low uptake, but because of nonexistent reliability.
Seriously. I don’t care how much you love the Liberty. That’s fine! Buy one with the guaranteed self-destructing 3.7 PowerTrash. Buy one with the 2.4 from the PT Cruiser. But there are no circumstances under which buying a diesel Liberty can be supported, ever.
Plus the Liberty’s interior sucks. Seriously. Go look at the ZJ, go sit in it, and you tell me that you’d choose paper-thin cardboard under burlap with the worst plastics in the industry over supple leather on heated Barcaloungers and a dash pad good enough that it rarely even cracks. (Just, uh, let’s not discuss gallons per mile.)
You’re threatening me with a good time! Remember, I own nothing but maintenance nightmares!
Honestly, there’s not much of a chance in me getting a Jeep of any kind anytime soon. I still have to get a first-generation Honda Insight, a first-generation Chevy Volt, a Victory Vision, a Volkswagen Eos VR6, and perhaps a dozen other bucket list cars before I even arrive at Jeep.
Yes, I know, you’re probably having a heart attack at that list. lol
Sounds like you and David could be siblings in the shitbox department. I’m certain there must be a diagnostic code for what drives you two to the most atrocious POS examples available for your knuckle busting pleasure. It’s gotta be related to masochism someway.
Mercedes, I assure you, NOTHING about the Liberty is a good time. Take the absolute worst car you have ever owned. The CRD is less reliable, and also completely unrepairable. How unrepairable? Official guidance on warranty was that if the head had to come off, the head was not to be removed under any circumstances. Even for suspected (guaranteed) cracks.
Why? Because you can’t remove the 425/428’s head without destroying it. I’m not joking. It’s a multi-layer head casting, it cannot be removed without warping, it cannot be machined, reinstallation requires clearancing and multiple torque plates, and the new cylinder head will cost you over $4000 these days. And that’s before getting into their propensity for fracturing pistons and destroying the block.
But the list? Not so much. The Honda Insight I’m just shaking my head because seriously, the IME and batteries in those are exactly why I don’t own one. (Badly engineered, guaranteed to fail, and went NLA during production. And without the IME, it’s just a misery box.) Maybe for a ‘my green car has a ridiculous turbo swap’ setup though.
Chevy Volt, eh. If you can find one with a fresh battery. Otherwise they’re as un-fun as the Liberty CRD in exactly the same vein: “good gods it costs how much to fix versus how much I spent? I’m out.” (See also: why I don’t have a CT200h F-Sport.)
I’ll keep an eye out, because there are a few Visions around here. A decade back I would’ve fought you for them, but they’re far too heavy for me now. But you have to keep an eye out for Honda CB750SC’s in exchange!
I know you didn’t say Eos because I’m not allowed to look at Eos or CCs. Ever. Those cars do not exist lalala I have nowhere to store it lalala.
But the 5.9 Limited? Seriously. Even if you don’t keep it, buy it. Good ones do not exist. Not “are few and far between.” They do not exist. If they did, I’d already have one. Even the one you linked is not a ‘good’ one. Guaranteed the previous engine died to an ignored water pump leak. The A/C lines are leaking from rot and age. The wiring is hacked up. But I don’t see the tailgate or fender rot, so there’s a good chance it only has suspension rot (due to the vents.) But it’s an acceptable one, and if it’s clean on the underside, one hell of a flip with some TLC.
The first gen Liberty was perfectly fine, and even kinda fun to drive.
I have a 2003 in the fleet with the PowerTec 3.7. It’s been remarkably reliable for 20 years. While I like that old beast, my wife absolutely loves it, which fortunately is saving me from having to buy her a new Wrangler.
But, yes, stay the hell away from the CRD. We (at DaimlerChrysler) couldn’t even keep them running when they were new and bought a bunch back because they were just so weird, quirky and freakishly delicate due to a not so well developed emissions package necessitated by U.S. regulatory standards for diesels significantly different than those of the E.U. , or so we were told.
I owned and wheeled a 95 zj for a number of years. Rather good offroad and easy to lift.
I always thought the hood louvers on the 5.9L ZJ were functional. I guess you learn something new every day.
Coming back from my tour of duty in Spain, I needed a car. A friend of mine sold Jeeps, and we arranged for me to buy an early 1993 ZJ , white with gold trim. It was a beautiful combination, and a great car. Never had any issues with it. It was quick, even with the inline 6, and handled surprisingly well. Very comfortable, too. Of course, it would go through Snowmagedden without a whimper. I kept it until 2000.
I would have loved that 5.9 though.
To clarify: the 5.2 is the Mopar 318 and the 5.9 is the 360.
Both engines were used in Chrysler products for many years. The 360 was often used in trucks.
“I bet there are even diehard Chevy Aveo lovers somewhere in the universe!”
I feel like I know one of those people. He at least loved it enough to buy a second Aveo, and then when they didn’t make them any more, he got a Chevy Spark. He made me ride in it to a work project site one day about 2 hours each way on the interstate. It had to have been the loudest car I’ve ever been in. I could barely hold a conversation with him due to a complete lack of any sound insulation.
What really irritated me was that I had offered to drive, but he had insisted. It was about 85 degrees that day, and about 15 minutes into the trip he said, I forgot to tell you, the AC is broken. Luckily the noise level in the car was pretty much the same with the windows open as with them closed. I can’t think of a more miserable car ride that I’ve ever been on.
Back in the 90’s my now ex Step father had a 5.2 Grand Cherokee. Not so unusual except this was in the UK and the car was LHD. Jeep offered the 4.0 in RHD and brought in a small number of LHD V8’s. I’m sure the ones that did come over stuck to the showroom floor like superglue and when my Step Father brought it the salesmen went on a long boozy lunch afterwards.
Anyhow I mostly remember that it was pretty swift in a straight line but had terrible brakes. I hope the 5.9’s had a brake upgrade?
Back in the day when I had a car allowance and was trying to keep up with the Joneses automotively I had two ZJs. The first was a ’95 Laredo in QuadraTrac and the second was a ’98 Limited in 2WD, both with the venerable 5.2. I adored both of those Jeeps, which ran trouble free for the entire time I had them. I still think to this day that the ZJ was a pretty brilliant vehicle, nicely sized, and reasonably luxurious. I think I took the Laredo off-road two or three times, but mostly they were used as pavement crawlers.
The thing with taking a design and denying credit… How do they think the designer won’t notice? They can tell, they have been working on this thing for ages, they were on the payroll.
“We just happened to go with a near-identical design from this other guy. You wouldn’t know him, though. See how this line is slightly different? That’s why yours was too ugly for us. He never wanted to use your designs when we showed him, he just came up with this similar thing on his own.” – the higher-ups, probably
Larry Shinoda was a great designer, he deserved better, after the work he did for Corvette and Mustang.