The Toyota Camry is the automobile someone buys when they just need “a car.” It’s got enough size to fit people and things, it has for years gotten enough fuel economy to get you at least 30 freeway miles on a single gallon of gas, it’s got good enough crash test ratings to carry your children, it’s cheap enough to justify to your accountant/spouse/self, it looks fine, and decades worth of people you know who have owned one tell you the thing will never die. While it may not sound exciting, that combination of attributes is enticing to a lot of people, which is why the Camry has outsold every other car for 19 years, and why this 2025 model — which has an electric motor solely for the rear wheels — is so important.
The current 2024 model Toyota Camry — you know, the car that your Uber driver picked you up with — comes with either a 200-ish horsepower highly efficient 2.5-liter Atkinson Cycle four cylinder engine (thermal efficiency of over 40 percent!) or a 301 horsepower 3.5-liter V6, with the former offering a hybrid variant that makes 176 horsepower from the engine and 208 horsepower as a total system. Fuel economy on some hybrids reaches MPGs as high as 51 city, 53 highway, 52 combined, but none of those hybrid trims offer all-wheel drive. That changes now.
The 2025 Toyota Camry is powered solely by a hybridized 2.5-liter inline-four, making 225 horsepower in front-drive guise or 232 ponies with all-wheel drive, which is available on all trims and adds an electric motor to power the rear axle. Here’s what Toyota has to say about the new powertrain/drivetrain:
Combining the engine’s power with two electric motors, this dynamic new HEV has a standard 225 net combined horsepower on Front Wheel Drive (FWD) models and 232HP on Electronic On-Demand All-Wheel Drive (AWD) equipped models. Toyota engineers have also tuned the new HEV system at lower speeds to reduce engine RPMs and increase power from the traction battery to provide satisfying acceleration and torque feel. T
For the first time ever on a Camry Hybrid, Toyota’s Electronic On-Demand All-Wheel Drive (AWD) system will be available on all grades. For added peace of mind, the AWD system provides additional traction when needed, like during inclement weather or while cornering. The AWD system’s capability comes from a dedicated rear electric drive motor generator that automatically supplies power to the rear wheels when needed.
Here’s a look at that rear drive unit:
It’s not mentioned in the press release, but I’m fairly certain the front wheels will receive torque via an electronic Continuously Variable Transmission (eCVT), not dissimilar to the one in the outgoing Camry Hybrid.
As you can see by the images, there have been some changes (subtle ones if you ask me) to the styling, as well, with Toyota touting:
The ninth generation Camry, designed by CALTY’s Newport Beach, California and Ann Arbor, Michigan studios, delivers a sleeker, athletic look to the popular sedan’s design. The distinctive hammerhead front fascia adds a fresh clean look that is sure to turn heads. All grades will feature slim LED headlights, daytime running lights and taillights.
The SE and XSE grades have sporty exterior styling with a sleek roofline and a chiseled body. The sport grades feature racing-inspired functional aerodynamic air ducts, front-side canards and a rear diffuser. The rear also has an exposed dual-tip exhaust as well as a rear lip spoiler. The XSE will further the sporty style with a unique color matched front grille and black trunk garnish. With standard 18-inch multi-spoke black-finished alloy wheels on SE grades and standard 19-inch multispoke black and smoke gray-finished alloy wheels on the XSE, these models will be a sure standout amongst its peers.
Here’s the outgoing model, for the record:
Toyota also talks about the Camry’s new interior, especially its new seats, saying:
The Camry will also have enhanced seat comfortability. Toyota engineers achieved this by changing the shape and density of the seat cushion and by increasing the cushion length. The headrest was also softened and moved rearward to enhance seat and ride comfort. That comfort can be extended on the XLE and XSE grades with available front heated and ventilated seats that can be adjusted to three levels. These higher-end grades will also have a quieter cabin thanks to the standard front-side acoustic laminated glass to help reduce wind noise and harshness.
Here’s the outgoing Camry’s interior:
The 2025 model’s main infotainment screen is more nicely integrated into the dash. Plus, whereas the outgoing model came with either a seven or nine inch screen, the new Camry comes with either an eight or 12.3 inch screen.
Humble Beginnings
Let’s talk about why this new Camry is so important.
The year is 1983. The best-selling car in America is the Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme, a traditional body-on-frame embodiment of American family car ideals. Six-cylinder or eight-cylinder engine up front, drive to the back, available with acres of velour. It’s in this model year that the first official Toyota Camry came to America. Sure, there was technically the Celica Camry before that, but this is the start of something great. However, instead of going after the midsize market, the first-generation V10 Camry was sized to compete with the Pontiac Sunbird and Chevrolet Citation. Needless to say, compared to the domestic competition, the Camry was aces. As per Car And Driver:
If you’re wondering what in the name of Bonzo the Toyota Motor Company is going to do to our nation’s automakers next, the answer just rolled into your friendly dealer’s showroom. It’s not enough that Toyota has already bombed us with the poor man’s BMW 633CSi (the Supra), the world’s best Chevette-class econobox (the Starlet), and one of the niftiest mudslingers in captivity (the Tercel 4WD wagon). No, this car company keeps trying harder, as if it were struggling to survive or something.
It was the start of something great, but Toyota wasn’t done trying. It wasn’t content to merely compete with J-Cars and X-Cars, it wanted global domination. A few years later, it would get it.
The Big Break
While the first-generation Camry was followed up by the V20, the really big move came in 1991 for the 1992 model year, with the first wide-body U.S.-specific Camry. This car was incredible, a feat of engineering that hit Detroit like a sucker punch. It was no longer a small sedan designed for the Japanese market, it was now a mid-size sedan designed specific for the U.S., and it took the Toyota to the next level, which is why Road & Track refers to it as “The Most Toyota of All Toyotas,” writing:
It has earned no racing glory, appeared in no iconic movie roles, and the guys wearing big watches at the Barrett-Jackson auction aren’t outbidding each other to obtain one. It is, however, the ultimate Toyota; the Toyota that embodies and exemplifies all the virtues that keep Americans buying Toyotas. It was overbuilt but affordable when it was new. And since then has become one of the greatest used cars of all time. No, scratch that, it IS the greatest used car of all time. It’s the Camry XV10 sold during the 1992 to 1996 model years.
As the article points out, the XV10 teed up the XV20 successor to make the Camry — for the very first time — the best selling car in America.
The Camry Hasn’t Fallen Off Its Perch Since
Ever since the XV20, the Camry has remained the sales king, thanks in part to incremental — and not sweeping — changes. The 2025 Toyota Camry, which will hit Toyota Dealerships in the Spring of 2024, seems to be following the same formula.
More official Toyota pics:
This story is breaking news and is therefore being updated. Additional writing by Thomas Hundal.
Images: Toyota or Thomas Hundal
Read this like you are describing an item on the Showcase Showdown on Price is Right:
It has overly baroque styling at the expense of efficiency, just like almost everything else.
On paper it absolutely destroys the Accord, but the Honda is just so much better looking. Orders of magnitude better. Toyotas design language has been “yuck” for so long that I forgot when then actually stopped making decent looking (if boring) cars.
In my humble opinion both suck, this one is overdone and the Accord is literally a bar of soap, devoid of any design cues and with the tailights of a 2016 jetta
That’s the first thing I noticed about the new Accord: the Jetta tailights. It still looks like a bigger Jetta to me from behind.
Imo there hasn’t been a non ugly Camry this millennium.
Toyota styling has been different flavors of questionable for a couple decades now, but I think it’s become considerably worse in the last two years. The new Tundra/Sequoia is hideous, and the Tacoma whose sales were better than ever just got replaced with a rather unfortunate looking 2024 model.
And then the Crown.
Don’t even mention the crown dude, the previous gen had a Modellista kit that made it one of the most stunning sedans. Now we got the one that can’t even decide what it wants to be
Toyota tunes their hybrid systems for less torque. Honda does’t have more HP, but kicks butt in the acceleration department. (I test drove both recently.)
Pour one out for the last V6 standing.
HYBRID ALL THE THINGS!!!!
It’s a huge styling improvement too. The current generation Camry just never sat well with me. I don’t like appliance cars that take a MORE IS MORE approach. The Camry in particular looked very busy. I think manufacturers have figured out that over styled commuters aren’t ideal, because based on the Civic and Accord’s redesigns and now this we seem to be returning to some normalcy.
And that’s fine with me. I don’t mind busy/aggressive designs in the right application but IMHO they should be saved for platforms that can back them up with performance. The Camry never could. And if you want something weird the Crown is in the same showroom and is already being discounted.
Thing is, even on a race car, the current styling looks off. The NASCAR Camrys have the worst lines of the field, and always make me think Toyota should replace them in the Cup series with the better-looking Supra design from the Xfinity series.
I don’t know man, I daily drive a 2022 Camry XSE Hybrid, and with good tires (not the garbage OEMs) it actually hustles quite well. I’ve even taken it up Angeles Crest (where I used to take my Miata) and it felt very competent. As long as you don’t have the 2-tone paint, I always thought the looks matched its capabilities alright.
It’s nice to see an investment in the mid-size car. The interior looks great. The screen is integrated rather than tacked on, it still has physical buttons, and the red option is very bold for a family sedan. The front end has a much more premium look than the outgoing model. Adding a small electric motor for AWD seems pretty innovative. We need more mid-size car options like this.
Agreed, but the way things are now, the Accord and Camry are rapidly becoming the only mid-size car options left.
Mid size is a relative term, an Accord is pretty much the biggest sedan on the market, making it full size, and it’s also approaching the size of some fullsize cars from the 80s.
Compact/midsize/fullsize have kind of always been poorly defined.
A “midsize” Tesla Model 3 is smaller than a “compact” Honda Civic in every dimension.
And a 2023 Honda Civic is larger than a 2003 Honda Accord
This is a challenge with customer feedback sessions. I swear in every damn one includes customer feedback of “it could be a bit bigger…” leading to year over year (or new model refresh cycle) size increases for every damn model, which is why you get “smaller” i.e. same size as the old product offerings that then slot below the now bigger version…
Not quite, although it is getting close. Certainly the Civic now is the same size as an Accord of 30 years ago and bigger inside, but the new Civic still fits within the footprint of the 2003 Accord and has less interior space. The Civic is particularly roomy even among its competitors though. My 2007 Accord (same gen) felt right-sized even as a single person, and the current Civic does too, whereas the latest Accord feels it would be too much car – at least when it’s all dedicated to passenger space.
Accords have gone back and forth over the years though, the 2008 was nearly as large as the current Accord as they were trying to retain some potential SUV defectors, but that didn’t work and the 2013 actually shrunk a bit, and back to regularly scheduled size creep for the prior/current gens.
Toyota has sort of held the line on Camry sizing ever since it was embiggened with the 3rd gen. I think the shift toward crossovers have somewhat stalled out sedan size creep, or at least it shifted to CUVs more. The HR-V is the size of earlier CR-Vs past, the RAV4 and CR-V are nearly as large as early Highlanders and Pilots, etc. But the new Camry doesn’t look like it’s grown much larger than the outgoing one based on pics…really intrigued at what the dimensions will be.
Both Model 3 and Civic are classified as midsize by the EPA based on interior volume, both are actually quite close in both interior and exterior dimensions (if small based on typical midsize car exterior dimensions). The Model 3 is not definitively smaller however, as it’s 1.5″ longer in length, about 2″ wider and 1″ taller outside; inside it has more headroom front and rear, more front legroom and more rear hiproom (almost 4″), and a bigger trunk.
Midsize is fairly relative though, the size classes seemed to become more definitive in more recent decades compared to the past, when pricepoint or intended buyer tended to group cars together. For much of the 90s the Accord, Camry, Taurus, and Intrepid were all frequently considered the same segment, rolled up as “family sedans” and priced closely, even though each was distinctly different in sizing both in dimensions and even EPA classification.
So I didn’t look up numbers, my sizing data just comes from what I’ve parked next to in parking lots.
My 92 Accord looks like it’s exactly the same exterior dimensions as a “midsize” Model 3. It’s a couple inches smaller in every dimension than a “compact” dodge dart or honda civic. Interestingly the interior dimensions are a couple inches bigger in every dimension than a Dodge dart.
You’re correct there, aside from extra width the current Civic is about the same size outside as most of the 90s Accords were until the 1998 Accord. Although they somehow squeezed in 5-6 more cubic feet of passenger space in the new Civic over those Accords (though the airier greenhouse of the Accords still means they feel roomier.
If I had to guess that 5 cubic feet is all stolen from the trunk, I think more of the accord length is trunk than the new civics is. Of course, my Accord wagon has considerably more space than an Accord sedan or a civic hatchback/sedan.
Surprisingly no, the Civic trunk is .4 cubic feet bigger than an Accord of your gen. Smaller fuel tank, but that wouldn’t account for all the difference. Even the new hatch apparently comes close to seats-up space to the wagon, but much less useful with the shape of the cargo area and the narrower opening; and the higher roof means the old wagon will win in total space.
Sorry I wasn’t clear enough. I think the civic doesn’t have as much length of trunk, but it also has a trunk lid like 12″ higher so a bigger volume sounds feasible.
I did just think in terms of total volume even though you mentioned length – I agree, the Civic is a couple inches wider outside so that’s likely where more of it is in cargo space too.
Can confirm. Accord back seat and trunk are huge! (Trunk is taller than Camry)
An improvement overall which although evolutionary, mutes some of the outgoing model’s weirder styling elements, especially the SE/XSE’s tacked-on fake front and rear vents in favor of a more cohesive look overall.Unfortunately, the Camry does continue the automotive trend of treating the front bumper as an afterthought from a body protection standpoint. At least visually, it appears as if a low speed bump would do significant front end damage.
The interior with its more integrated infotainment screen is a big win although the LE’s more budget-friendly interior is yet to be shown.
For those of us lamenting the loss of the V6, the best case is the TRD and/or hybrid max powertrain will be offered at a later date. Else, Toyota may reserve it for the next generation Lexus ES to help differentiate it from the Camry.
This is the same drivetrain from the Corolla Cross Hybrid, right? Pretty neat setup and very appealing to the average consumer.
The Corolla Cross uses the 2.0L version of the engine family, but otherwise the powertrain concept is the same.
Given it won’t be made and sold in Japan anymore and the mid size sedan is basically dead in most markets…one could begin to argue that the US is becoming the new Brazil for auto makers
Yes it is indeed a car.
So the AWD adds but a 7hp motor to the back?
The rear motor should be much more powerful than that, because the 7hp difference is the result of the front motor not being able to output the full amount the battery is capable of.
Theoretical example: let’s say both the front and rear motors can output 25hp, and the battery can output 32hp. The FWD model will only have 25hp of electric output, while the AWD can do the full 32hp.
This is often seen in 2WD vs AWD versions of electric cars that have the same exact battery pack.
Yes, but it still has that butt ugly Predator face (thumbs down emoji)
Not great but vastly better than before.
That grill is not a strong point but it’s not a deal breaker. Vastly improved interior and going all hybrid is smart move. Nailed it.
Nice to see that Toyota didn’t forget about an infotainment system during the design phase, unlike the previous model where they forgot and threw it on right at the end.
I am curious if Toyota will still offer a sportier version of this car, as the article mentioned the 301 hp variant, but on the revision it looks like you top out at 232 hp if you opt for AWD. And Toyota did seem to do a good job with the TRD versions in offering a sport tuned suspension with the beefier engine.
Or are they thinking people who desire a faster car opt for a Lexus? Currently a TRD Camry is ~$33k, and the cheapest IS equipped with a 311 HP engine is ~43k. Even at ~$37k for a fully loaded Camry, the $6k gap to go from a Camry to the IS is still pretty big.
They’ve really calmed down styling compared to the previous gen, which was really needed. I kinda wish that that grill was smaller/less wide, but overall a nice update. Looks kinda like the Avalon. Nothing to complain about the interior other than the steering wheel looking a bit plasticy and ugly.
From the 1 inch wide preview of the rear shot of the warm silver car, I easily could mistake it as a Lexus.
Glad to see it go hybrid only, but I’m surprised not to see a hybrid max model, or 2 engine options in general. Perhaps they think that V6 customers will be happy enough with the low speed snappiness that a hybrid provides. Most competitors have a ~180hp engine option alongside a 2.0T or V6, and this 2.5L hybrid’s 225/232hp leans heavily towards 2.0T territory. Maybe there isn’t much fuel economy to be gained with a smaller hybrid engine option.
I’m iffy on the front (but like the front more than the new Accord), but appreciate that it looks less busy overall and seems more trim/less melty than the outgoing one. That goes for the inside too even if it does mean more screens. Really wondering what the dimensions put it at as it almost looks smaller even though that isn’t likely. And what they estimate the fuel economy to be, as it seems like that may be getting close to the new Prius for the same price or less.
This is more excellence that spurs the competition to try harder, and that is good for everyone. Camrys do make excellent used cars – they just keep going, and going, and going, are very dependable and do many things right.
Now we need a version with a 6-speed manual and a convertible top, as well as a nice squared-off wagon that doesn’t pretend to be an SUV…
“This is more excellence that spurs the competition to try harder, and that is good for everyone”
When competition actually decides to compete Yes this is true.
For the mid-size/full size car segment what competition? Other than the Honda.Accord everyone else seems to have decided they cant / wont compete with Toyota and Honda and have given up on this segment (certainly at least in the USDM)
I’d read that this model was based on a revised version of the existing platform, but how much parts commonality is there? The doors especially look awfully familiar…
To me this looks screams semi-major mid-cycle update rather than an all new design. Not that I see anything wrong with that – the previous one was a pretty solid design.
I for one LOVE the new design of the front end! I was never a fan of the previous design language, they looked like ugly angry gophers to me. This one looks sleek and sporty, kinda like Honda’s new Prelude and the new Prius, and honestly the big grille looks pretty tame here in body color.
However, as great as all-hybrid is, why the heck did they ditch the 301 hp V6!?
They could’ve easily reused the previous V6 with that new electric rear axle and made a 400+ hp AWD hybrid GR Camry, which would’ve been an epic budget BMW fighter!
Oh yeah, at that point it’d steal sales from Lexus… but it would’ve been so cool 🙁
So build that and sell it as a Lexus.
I have a new Toyota Crown with a similar front end styling. It looks really good in person!
Toyota is touting a new, 300hp hybrid drive system which is probably replacing all of the V6 applications. Fleet fuel standards may be broken, but they are still a thing.
Whoops! The new system is 340hp.
It’s the right move, except for the face of the thing. All hybrid, more comfortable, and more modern. Still has physical controls for things. And the AWD is gonna have a huge take rate; even if people don’t actually need AWD, they’re going to option it because they think they might need it.
Speak for yourself, I think the new styling is a huge improvement over the old. The previous Camry had an ugly grille that made the Toyota badge look like the nose of a snarling rodent. This new one looks so much cleaner and more sleek, giving the Camry the same treatment as the new Prius. The outgoing Camry had meh styling, but this one actually looks cool and sporty. I like it.
I just think it is busy. The shape is fine. The detail is a bit much. But to each their own. It’s just the only choice they made that I could really criticize at all (though a Prime would be nice, too). If I were looking at buying one, it would not put me off of it.
I’m with Drew – I like everything but the front end. The beak is awkward and doesn’t fit cohesively with the rest of the car. In fact, the front end looks like they were trying to copy the design of the Kia K5, which looks great, but couldn’t get their hands on one so they designed it all from memory of that one time they got black out drunk and puked on one in the bar parking lot.
The people that need AWD are mostly people that don’t realize that winter tires exist and are actually more effective than having 4 tires with no grip. Basically, all of California. I live here and they legally consider normal all season M+S tires “snow” tires, and that people with AWD don’t necessarily need to use chains in conditions 2wd(even with winter tires) must.
I just bought an “AWD” badge so I can circumvent the stupidity.
The Boston metro area averages ~40 inches (~1 meter) of snow a year and I’d reckon maybe 2% of drivers use winter tires.
It’s not really a regional thing, it’s a “people are both cheap and lazy” thing. Especially the lazy part. Yes, turning a car that only powers one axle to powering both is more expensive, but people never look at it that way. They just see a price. Yet once you tell people they have to buy and plan for something else and then actually go do things periodically, they throw up their hands and complain about the price, when it’s really they can’t be bothered to do anything.
Been watching it for my entire life. People are really lazy, and will spend money to ensure they have to do as little, and plan as little, as possible.
I’m actually the only person in my immediate and extended family that has ever bought winter tires. The car I bought them for? A Lancer Evolution VIII MR, which really confused family since it’s all wheel drive!
AWD AND winter tires are great in places, like where I live, that get 90+ inches of snow every winter over 5+ months.
I’m not discounting that! But 2wd with winter tires vs AWD with all seasons the 2wd will almost always be better because AWD only helps with going and good tires help with going, turning and stopping which is the most important bit. But I’m preaching to the choir. I know quite well the benefits of winter tires, ground clearance and 4wd all together. Hell even just 4wd with A/T tires is pretty decent, especially when the snow is high enough that it provides extra traction and stopping force. But I digress.
And how much help is 7hp on the rear going to really be in a situation where AWD is actually needed, particularly if it’s like the Corolla and it only works up to some really low speed? Maybe a little off the line, but only up to moderately more slippery conditions than the front wheels could handle alone. Beyond that, tires are the limiter and good enough tires wouldn’t need the rear motor. Besides marketing, I think its mainly there for regen and EV parking lot maneuvering.
7hp or so on the rear axle is normal and competitive. Almost all transverse engine “AWD” cars can send but little power to the rear, and not at high speeds. Some cars completely disconnect the rear axle at speeds as low as 5mph.
I’m aware, which is why I think most AWD systems are a scam on the mechanically ignorant. In this case, I’m rhetorically questioning the point of a 7hp motor that only works at very low speed for serving as a functional AWD system and posit instead that its best use is some additional regen and emissions-free maneuvering in parking lots. Plenty of times, I’ve heard non-car people complain about slippery conditions in their reactive part-time AWDs that my FWDs with good tires didn’t notice. One group I’ve never heard that from, though, is Subaru drivers because those are full-time systems that actually work.
Great that they’re making the hybrid standard. Would love to see a PHEV option…
If it’s like the current Gen, the battery is under the rear seats, which already lifts them up about an inch compared to the gas-only car and reduces rear seat headroom.
My guess is that a PHEV Camry with a bigger battery would A) raise the seats too high, or B) eat up too much trunk space, trunk space being a big appeal of the Camry.
No hybrid MAX and no plugin is kind of surprising.
My guess on the PHEV is supply constraints. Right now the US is only getting about 10,000 Prius Primes a year because they don’t have enough battery supply to build more. Allocations are still really tight, and waits are still long unless you’re willing to pay ADM.
The RAV4 Prime and Prius Prime are the catering to the “lower end” (I realize they aren’t “cheap”) PHEV buyers. Camry is for people who want a traditional 3-box package with a trunk.
A Camry Prime would be eligible for tax credits, so I’m guessing one will come as soon as they have the batteries to make it happen.
They’d have to find a place to put those bigger batteries that doesn’t mess up the Camry’s excellent trunk space.
“Hybrid Max sedan? Buy a Crown!…please” – Toyota
So does this mean the Camry TRD is dead?
I’d be surprised if it wasn’t dead, the writing has been on the wall for awhile tbf
It was also kind of half baked from its inception. It’s the same V6 as the higher trims with no changes, the same lazy transmission, there’s no LSD so it can’t put the power down very well…really it’s basically an appearance package with a better exhaust and some mild suspension tuning.
It’s even less appealing when compared to things like the GTI, WRX, Elantra N, Civic SI, etc. I appreciate that they did it but the general consensus of journalists who drove it was that it was kind of a day late and a dollar short. 10 years ago it would’ve been pretty neat but the sporty compact segment is red hot right now.
Mediocre MPG and ugly styling also didn’t help it, I always liked Toyota’s V6 models, the old Sienna was faster than it had any right to be, same with the old Venza, but somehow in today’s market, I (and many others) are not interested in the MPG loss. The old MT 2.0T Accord Sport was always interesting to me, but that didn’t get any better MPG, just looked better and had a stick.
Grille design by Lexus and the ghost of Charles Babbage.
Thankfully this model gets rid of that pointless thing dangling off the corner of the taillight that didn’t match the cut line from the bumper.
Right. I always thought it look like a loose rubber gasket. I know they wanted it to look like a vent but body color would have worked better.
ugh…if they would take out that god awful grill! or at least another option for it that’s not as predator
I agree the big grill isn’t great, but compared to the outgoing model, the fact it is body color, and less tacked on makes at least an improvement.
David! Question; you guys are based in LA, why are all your articles tagged in EST?
Because all writers always want to feel like they’re in NYC.
………………………..hard pass on that one.
Signed,
Ain’t no way I’m paying to park three garbage car sons in that city
More specific to Toyota here, seems like they tend to specify ET alone when they announce the date for new model intros, despite NA HQ being in CA before and now in Plano, aka not eastern. And despite it being an LA show.
Subaru and Hyundai for example have PT first with ET in parentheses/after in their announcements and countdowns for LA.