Welcome back to Shitbox Showdown! Today we’re going to look at one of the great all-time rivalries, right up there with Coke vs. Pepsi, Cardinals vs. Cubs, and David Lee Roth vs. Sammy Hagar. But first let’s see which car won yesterday’s lengthy battle:
Well, that’s the long and the short of it. The bar graph is the opposite of the overall lengths, and the little Chevy Sprint is our winner. I do like the idea of building a twin-engined all-wheel-drive monster out of the two cars the seller was parting with; It seems like a noble amd terrifying way to die.
Ford introduced the world’s second pony car, the Mustang, on April 17, 1964 (Waitaminnit! Second, you say? Yes, Plymouth beat them to market by two weeks with the Barracuda). [Editor’s Note: Mark, a Barracuda is a fish. The entire concept of “Pony Car” came from the Mustang, which, per all the scientific equine research papers I’ve been reading, is basically a pony. -DT]. It was an immediate success, and left crosstown rival GM without a competing vehicle for a couple of years, until September 29, 1966, when Chevy unveiled the Camaro. When asked what a “Camaro” was, a GM product manager replied, “A small vicious animal that eats Mustangs.”
And they’ve been at each other’s throats ever since.
For a long time, used Camaros and Mustangs were performance car bargains, a good way to get some cheap thrills in a reasonably stylish package (sometimes more stylish, sometimes less, depending on the era). But now that early examples of both cars are considered classics, and even the ’80s Fox-body Mustangs and third-generation Camaros are starting to creep up in price, kicks just keep getting harder to find, as the old song goes. [Editor’s Note: I have no idea which song Mark is referring to, here. -DT]
But at the moment, twenty-something-year-old examples of either car are right at the bottom of their depreciation curve, so there are still some to be found for our meager budget. We’ll have to settle for six-cylinders; V8s either don’t run or cost too much. Let’s take a look at one of each.
Ride, Sally, Ride – 1999 Ford Mustang – $2,495
Engine/drivetrain: 3.8 liter V6, 5 speed manual, RWD
Location: Tacoma, WA
Odometer reading: 216,000 miles
Runs/drives? We can assume
This is a fourth-generation Mustang, the first year of the “New Edge” refresh. Like all Mustangs before it, and quite a few after, it’s about as complicated a machine as a C-clamp. Sit down, stomp on the right pedal, do something antisocial. While not as raucous as its V8-powered stablemates, the 3.8 liter “Essex” V6 in this car received a serious power bump for 1999, up to 190 horses. Particularly when backed by a T-5 manual as in this car, it can still manage some mischief. But it’s also tractable enough to drive every day.
And personally, I think the New Edge Mustang is a sharp-looking car, much better than the blobby mess that preceded it. This one looks well-used, but reasonably well-kept. It’s got a lot of miles, and coming from a buy-here-pay-here lot, probably not much written history.
Inside, a cheap parts-store seat cover and some missing cruise control buttons on the steering wheel show the miles, but it could be a lot worse. You could probably rely on this car as a daily driver, if an inspection didn’t turn up any surprises.
Donuts On Your Lawn – 2000 Chevrolet Camaro – $2,250
Engine/drivetrain: 3.8 liter V6, 4 speed automatic, RWD
Location: Houston, TX
Odometer reading: 104,000 miles
Runs/drives? Great, according to the seller
Camaros always seem to end up one notch scruffier than Mustangs. I don’t know if it’s because they get driven harder, or cared for less well, or if GM’s materials just get grubby-looking faster than Ford’s. But looking at this Camaro, compared to the Mustang above, you’d never guess it had half as many miles on it.
Mechanically, it’s at least as tough, if not tougher. In 1996, GM began using the Buick-derived corporate 3800 V6 as the base engine in the Camaro and sister model Pontiac Firebird, and it was a nice bump in power and refinement from the older 3.4 liter V6. This one is backed by an automatic; I tried to find a manual Camaro so we could compare apples to apples, but no dice.
This poor Camaro has suffered some questionable modifications, namely the aftermarket taillights and those awful wheels and rubber-band tires. But it’s standard five-lug GM, so you can replace them with just about anything. It has also been booped in the nose, and the seller settled for replacing the bumper skin with a mismatched junkyard unit and leaving the sheetmetal damage alone.
Still, it’s intact and drivable, and if the seller is to be believed, runs really well. And like the Mustang, the Camaro is designed and intended to be “just a car,” not some precious exotic plaything. You can use a Camaro as your only car if you want; it will carry groceries as well as any minivan, and the six-cylinder models even get reasonable gas mileage. Sure, some plastic stuff will break, but the basic core of the car is stout.
Really, these two cars are almost interchangeable, except for a little brand loyalty. The Mustang is a little smaller and sportier; the Camaro has a hatchback and a bit more bad-boy reputation. Which one suits you better?
There is no way I could look at that hideous steering wheel in the Camaro every day. Mustang ftw.
If it were a straight apples-to-apples comparison (mileage/transmission/damage), I think this era’s Camaro has a little edge on styling over the Mustang. That said, the mileage (accurate?) can’t save how ragged out the Chevy is. The awful wheels are icing on the rancid cake. The Mustang actually starts looking like a decent car for $2500, but you’d have to force me to take it.
I’ve always preferred GM over Ford, having driven a lot of Holdens in my time. I’m pretty familiar with the Buick 3800, having had it under the bonnet of a couple of my old Commodores.
…I’ll take the Mustang, thanks.
One of my friend’s mom’s owned one of those Mustangs when we were growning up. She was a schoolteacher and the most mild-mannered passive woman you’d ever imagine meeting. Absolutely the last person you’d suspect of demanding a Rustang as their commuter car. The Rustang has hidden depths. The Camaro is a high-school hero that still thinks it can throw a football over those mountains.
In the end it’s just that manual transmission. I’d rather have an automatic Camry than either.
My ’97 has 113,000 miles and looks a lot better than this ’99.
3.8 liter with 5 speed manual.
I had no idea it could go for $2500.
I do need a new deck in the back yard.
‘Stang by a country mile. Any car with 200k on the clock that still presents that well must have been well cared for, plus it’s a proper five speed. The Camaro is…oh, lord. It’s destined for the afterlife. GM plastic breaks if you look at it cockeyed, so I can only imagine what kind of creaking and groaning you’ll hear in that interior while bouncing around on those ridiculous 22s. I don’t even want to think about the kind of sorry state its suspension components must be in.
Mustang. My first wife had a ’95 Firebird with a V6 and automatic, and it was… fine. But it had T-tops and it was only two years old and thus in much, much, much better shape than this F-body. Still, way too plasticky. I would indeed like a WS6 Trans Am of this vintage, but this ain’t that.
Ahem. Wasn’t done typing yet. I don’t like this era of Mustang, but this one’s miles cleaner than the Camaro, and it’s a stick which means it’ll be at least somewhat fun to drive.
I know I’m wrong to even think it, but I want to put the 3800 in the ‘stang. Just to be perverse. No other reason.
I wanted to vote Camaro here as it was my first car but holy hell, no. There’s no way that thing only has 104k miles, None. You’d have to spend at least a month wrenching just to get it to the point of that Mustang. It maybe $250 cheaper but that’s a $250 investment I’ll gladly make!
Not a fan of either of these appropriately named shit boxes but my feelings
1. Chose the Camaro over Mustang because rather hang with beer drinking rednecks than coffee swelling metrosexuals, not that there is anything wrong with that.
2. I thought the pony car term was derived from the equine family Mustang that included an admission that the car was so poorly underpowered they had to pony for pony powered because well it was a girl’s car.
3. Definitely any foreign car would be my choice over these as both were made to throwaway after the warranty.
A Hyundai Scoupe for you, then.
A true punishment if there ever was one.
Well the coffee-drinking metrosexuals deserves that. Especially as I was sitting on the porch drinking beer with my boyfriend when I read it. Pretty sure he had The Judds playing as well. I love stereotypes, don’t you?
This guy just loves being a douchebag for some reason.
Wow was drinking beer with my boyfriend when I posted. Seems okay to make Mohawk wearing rednecks driving Comeras or rolling coal comments but not anything about a perfect cars and coffee comment. You think that might be because the new generation is just as bigoted but doesn’t accept it when it applies to them?
Frankly I am an old obese pollock who grew up with the last name Horchak during the welcome back Kotter days. As long as you don’t hit me from behind or with an actual weapon it really doesn’t matter to me.
Over these cars? Yes. I would take a Razr scooter at full sticker over either of these for free.
Honestly neither because V6, but if I had to pick I’ll go with the Stang, just like I did in early 2004 when I did this debate but with V8 cars. The Mustang is just an easier car to live with.
Mustang by a mile. It’s far less clapped than the Camaro and if you’re going to force me to choose a V6 pony car, I’d at least want one with a manual to let me get as much enjoyment as I can from it. I’ve ridden in V6 auto 4th gens before and they’re slooooooow
The Mustang is used up. The Camaro is beat up. That road goes nowhere. A wash and wax and I wouldn’t be ashamed of the Mustang. Still had to think about it because of the Camaro’s better engine.
My wife and I currently own much better versions of these cars. (’04 Mustang Mach 1 and ’02 Camaro Z28, both manual transmissions). I voted Mustang for the manual trans.
These are great grocery getter cars. Despite having practically a car lot at the house, we always drive the 2000 V-6 Mustang to Walmart.
Truth is, I’m driving it more often now that the truck is back in the shop to get the carb fixed (again).
I don’t hate it. I’m a Ford guy, but honestly it’s about the last Ford I’d have chosen (one above the Windstar).
I voted for the Mustang, but I find it disappointing that it’s at a BHPH lot.
The GM 3.8 is a better engine than the Ford 3.8, but that Camaro is BEAT. Plus it’s the ugliest Camaro body style ever, by far. Then you couple it to an automatic, and NOPE NOPE NOPE! I fully expected based on the title to choose the Camaro, but nah dude, the Mustang is the clear choice here. Anybody who picked the Camaro must own an “I’d rather push a Chevy than drive a Ford” trucker cap.
I guess the Mustang? It has a ton of miles and BHPH dealers are the absolute scummiest scummy used car dealerships, but that Camaro looks like shit. At least I wouldn’t be embarrassed to be seen in that Mustang. The stick also give its smidge of enthusiast cred in an otherwise forgettable car.
None of the above this time.
I’d take a rattle-canned ‘85 Sentra before this pair.
Mainly because my only reason for owning either would be a 3-pedal v8 for shenanigans, so I’d default to my standard lightweight tossable shitbox if I can’t check both boxes.
Definitely one of those where I wish there was the “the only passing I’m doing is a hard pass on both” option.
Having owned a 2002 Mustang GT with the stick, I voted Camaro. Never driven one, but anything has to be better than that Mustang. It had power, sure, but it actively resisted any spirited driving. The stick was terrible and the handling sucked.
Looking at these 2 examples, the Mustang is probably the better car, but I just can’t.
3 pedals and in better shape – I’d take the Mustang
This one is way too easy.
Three pedals always wins. Plus it’s the better looking of the two.
Even though I’m a Ford guy, I picked the Camaro. When they were both respectively redesigned, Ford had a concept drawing very similar to the car they’re building right now but they passed it up for this jelly bean girly looking piece of crap. Chevy absolutely nailed the camaro. I have owned one, it had a ton of miles on it. I bought it for $200 because the owner said it needed a motor. It didn’t need an engine it needed a $30 engine relay. He was not happy when I drove it out of his yard. One of the best chassis that General Motors built to that point other than the Corvette.
Engine to engine, I’d definitely say the 3800 wins heavily over the Ford…but that car is beyond beat to shit.
Pulling up the Craigslist ad, I am actually surprised it isn’t spelled “Camero”, nor does it say anywhere “Very fast”, as is almost requisite for a V6 4th gen Camaro.
“Runs and drives great
Classic
Only 104,000 miles
6 cyl 3.8 engine Corbett engine
Have some dents and scratches (see pictures)
Clean title
20-22 inc chrome wheels”
What is a “3.8 engine Corbett engine”?
Does it have two different size wheels…or do they legitimately not know what size wheel they are?
What about it is “Classic”? Legally it’s not even there (yet).
“Corbett”….
I could be wrong, but I’d bet they meant “Corvette”…
Was there a 3.8 V6 in the Corvette in this era? I would think not…
Has there been a 6-cylinder Vette since the first generation?
Okay I am a GM guy, and I’m pretty sure my dad would disown me if he saw a Ford in my driveway, but since it’s pretend I vote Mustang. Manual almost always wins my heart.