It took me a while to understand what people see in newer Toyota Land Cruisers. They’re extremely inefficient, expensive even with lots of miles on them, pricey to maintain, too large to be amazing off-road in stock form, not that big inside, slow, poor-handling, and they require a $1000 timing belt job every eight years. But when I bought a Lexus LX470 in 2021, I finally understood: Land Cruisers blend extreme comfort with good off-road capability and reliability in a way that few other machines can. The U.S. Toyota Land Cruiser is a luxury off-roader that — unlike many of its peers — you can buy with 200,000 miles on the clock and not have to worry about endless electrical or mechanical failures, and that’s rare. I mention all of this because I test-drove a 2008 Chevrolet Trailblazer this past weekend, and I’m convinced that it offers most of what a Toyota Land Cruiser does but at 20 percent of the price.
If you’re on a budget and want to get into the off-road space, it seems have to sacrifice comfort or reliability. If you want a reliable, cheap Jeep XJ or TJ or YJ, just know that you’re going to have to deal with loud wind noise and a so-so ride. If you want a comfortable and capable old Land Rover, expect to deal with electrical gremlins. If you want a somewhat-comfortable, capable Jeep Grand Cherokee WJ, prepare for electrical and transmission issues. There are obviously some exceptions out there (I’m convinced my manual ZJ is one of them), but the king of used-off-roaders that offer reliability, off-road capability, and enough comfort to actually be a viable family-hauler is the Toyota Land Cruiser and its U.S.-variants the Lexus LX and GX (the GX is technically the Land Cruiser Prado, but it counts in my eyes).
I used to own a 2001 Lexus LX470; I drove it from Chicago to Seattle, then back to Detroit. The thing crushed miles; it was absolutely incredible at eliminating almost all exterior wind noise, the ride quality was amazing, the 4.7-liter V8 was buttery smooth, the vehicle towed like a tank, and its traction control system and decent ground clearance made it impressive off-road for its size. Plus I think it looks cool. I totally get why people love these machines, even if I myself might be willing to give up a bit of comfort for a lower asking price and more off-road capability (but I’m single, and I’m convinced that maybe later in life I might value comfort more).
With all that established, this past weekend I flew from LA to a wedding in Fort Collins. I had to find a car for the four day trip, and since I was a bit late to be asking for a press vehicle, I hopped onto Turo and found this:
Now, I realize that many of you might not find this machine remotely interesting, but I’ve always wondered what these SUVs were like to drive — after all, the Trailblazer and its GMT-360 siblings the GMC Envoy, Buick Rainier, Oldsmobile Bravada, Isuzu Ascender, and Saab Whateverit’scalledprobablysomethingwithahyphenandanX were the last American vehicles with gasoline inline-sixes until the recent resurgence of straight sixes (they’re coming back now to maximize synergy with inline-fours that have become so efficient and powerful).
Yes, I got a 15 year-old Chevy with a check engine light and bent windshield wiper arm (look at that view above!) as my rental. Meanwhile, my colleague Matt’s 4th of July weekend car was a $150,000 Lucid Air. Is there something wrong with me? Yes, yes there is. But while I’m off on this tangent, I should note that my weekend went great; I was the emcee of my friend Brian’s wedding reception (I know Brian from my Chrysler engineering days); here I am trying to be entertaining/charming:
I also went on a great hike (see below) that I thought was 7.5 miles but was actually over 10, leading me to run out of water and forego eating lunch (as I figured it’d make me thirsty) until I reached the trailhead. Unfortunately, this was five hours after I’d started the hike and six hours after I’d bought the turkey sandwich, so I got food poisoning. The bathroom at the airport has seen better days.
Anyway, back to my rental car, which, again, I chose primarily for its “Atlas” 4.2-liter straight six engine called the Vortec 4200.
I love straight sixes for their smoothness and (often) low-end torque, and the Vortec 4200 in the 2002 to 2009 Trailblazer is a true gem, as I wrote in my article One Of The Last American Inline-Six Engines Was In Your Normal Everyday Chevrolet Trailblazer for Ye Olde Lighting Site. It’s an all-aluminum, dual overhead cam 4.2-liter straight six that — for the 2008 model year — made 285 horsepower and 276 lb-ft of torque. Those are phenomenal numbers, especially if you consider that six cylinder engines in the mid 2000s just weren’t putting out those power numbers. Dodge’s high-output 3.5-liter was making 250 horsepower, and that was a big deal. Ford’s 2005 Mustang 4.0-liter V6 made 210 ponies. Sure, Toyota had a 3.5-liter making 280 ponies in the mid 2000s, but when the Trailblazer came out for the 2002 model year with 270 horsepower from that six, that was nuts. Those were V8 figures!
Never mind that the engine’s MPGs were also V8 figures (see above); the point is that the Vortec 4200 has always fascinated me, which is why I rented that Trailblazer for the weekend to see if it would live up to the hype. It very much did.
Right away I should note: It’s not fast. Yes, 285 horsepower sounds like a lot, but the Trailblazer weighs 4,500 pounds, and the engine’s power has to go through a four-speed “4L-60E” slushbox automatic transmission (Motor Week, embedded later in this article, hit 60 mph from a standstill in about 7.5 seconds — not bad). Everything happens gradually, but with confidence; the motor makes plenty of power and will get you up steep Colorado mountains without issue, but it’s not going to be all that exciting.
90 Percent Of A Land Cruiser’s Comfort
The interior is fine. It’s a little Playmobil-plastic-y, and the controls are a little more “chunky” than they are elegant, but the Turo vehicle I drove — which had about 130,000 on the clock — was holding up very well:
I will admit that my 2001 LX’s interior looked a bit nicer/more modern:
Regardless, those seats in the Trailblazer offer couch-like comfort, and what’s more, the ride quality is fantastic. Seriously, the lack of wind noise, combined with a truly supple ride and a ridiculously buttery-smooth inline-six engine (I found it just as smooth as the Land Cruiser’s 4.7-liter V8), propel the Trailblazer’s overall driving comfort right up to the Land Cruiser’s doorstep. The Trailblazer isn’t quite as vault-like as my LX was, but it’s 90 percent there. It’s incredibly comfortable, and John Davis from Motor Week agrees:
“On more normal highways and byways, the Trailblazer redeems itself with a superb ride and very low interior noise levels,” Davis says before referring to the optional leather seat-equipped Trailblazer as “plush” and mentioning a great Bose sound system, optional heated seats, and standard side airbags, among other options.
The Trailblazer I was driving was a regular model, and it was gigantic inside. Both rows of seating enjoyed copious legroom, and the cargo area was huge. The EXT version of the Trailblazer (I’ll show a video if it in a moment) — which is 16 inches longer, making it over a foot longer than even the Chevy Tahoe of the era — adds a third row, and is just a straightup beast.
My Lexus LX470 was significantly smaller inside than I thought given the machine’s huge exterior dimensions. Folding the rear seats didn’t offer enough space for me to sleep in the rear. I bet it’s still a little bigger than a standard Trailblazer, but much smaller than the EXT.
Good Off-Road Capability
The Trailblazer has the same basic suspension layout as the Lexus GX and LX: An independent front suspension and a solid rear axle, all bolted to a fully-boxed ladder frame. The Chevy’s 29 degree approach angle is decent, though its 23-degree departure angle isn’t amazing, nor is the 7.8 inches of ground clearance. The Lexus LX and GX from the era offered similar approach angles, but significantly better departure angles and more ground clearance. Plus, both Lexus models offered an excellent ATRAC traction control system, though the Trailblazer (which has a four-wheel drive low range transfer case) could be had with an automatic rear locker (G80). (Some Lexus LXs also could be had with rear lockers).
Still, a little lift (as shown above) to jack up that departure angle and the ground clearance, and the Trailblazer makes for a decent off-road machine.
Oh, and in case you’re curious, the video above shows the extended EXT model hitting the dirt.
Of course, the aftermarket support for Trailblazers is just not comparable to that of a mid-2000s LX or GX — not even close — so modding a Trailblazer to be an off-roader/overlander is a bit tricker than it is for a Land Cruiser owner. It’s also worth noting that, while the Trailblazer isn’t rated to tow as much as my LX was, 5,700 pounds of towing capacity ain’t bad! That’s only down 800 pounds from both my LX and from a GX of the Trailblazer’s same model-year.
What About Reliability?
So the Trailblazer offers 90 percent of a 100 Series Land Cruiser’s comfort, probably 80 percent of its off-road capability, and now we’re at the third pillar of what makes a Land Cruiser a Land Cruiser: Reliability. How does the Chevy hold up?
Well, that Vortec 4200 is known for being borderline unkillable. Google “Vortec 4200 reliability” or “Atlas 4200 reliability” and you’ll find forums filled with Trailblazer owners who have had no issues whatsoever. The 4L60-E four-speed automatic, however, is known to be decent, but certainly not unkillable, with some having to rebuild theirs before 200,000 miles. The Aisin four-speed in Land Cruisers (and later the five-speed) was known to last as long as the also-unkillable (if you don’t forget to change the timing belt) 4.7-liter V8.
But aside from a transmission issue every couple hundred thousand miles and some occasional small BS that Land Cruisers don’t have to deal with, Trailblazers are known to be stout enough (just read this thread and the comments here and here) and that’s impressive given how absurdly cheap these machines are.
An Alternative, Not A Replacement
I should make this clear here: I’m not saying the Trailblazer is a Land Cruiser replacement. It’s unlikely a Toyota Land Cruiser fan is going to fall in love with the Trailblazer. But I do think it’s an excellent low-cost alternative in that it offers a lot of the things a Land Cruiser does but at a fraction of the price. Is it as capable off-road? No, but it’s 80 percent there. Is it as comfortable on-road? I mean, almost — I’d say it’s 90 percent there. Is it as reliable as a Lexus LX or GX? No, but it’s probably 80 percent there. Multiply all those out and you’re at about 60 percent. Now consider that I sold my 265,000 mile Lexus LX470 for $7,200, and that you can buy a Trailblazer with half as many miles for half that price, and you see where I’m coming from. If you can afford a Lexus GX or LX, buy one. If you can’t and you need a super comfortable, large SUV with some off-road capability and not horrible reliability, consider buying a Trailblazer. By most accounts, it’s a great machine.
TIL David wears size 19 dress shoes
Yeah, what the hell?! Those are gigantic clown shoes…the ones in the reception pic look smaller so can’t figure it out ha ha
How does the contemporary Nissan Pathfinder (the pre-crossover one) compete to this? At a minimum, they seem perfectly cromulent on paper and avoid the Toyota tax.
If you don’t care about offroad ability the Ford Explorer from that year was kind of a cool vehicle – V8, three row, bulletproof modular V8. Rear IFS so light offroad only but they handle weirdly good for a giant box. Weird mishmash of crown vic and F-150 parts so parts are cheap.
The 3rd Gen Explorer did have great packaging, still looks good today, and had pretty good handling…..that’s about it.
This is where it gets worse:
“Car Complaints disclosed that the 2002 Explorer stacked up 3752 NHTSA complaints, ranking No. 1 on their list of The Worst Vehicles”
I had a 2003 V8, XLT, 7 passenger, with off road package. It looked great, and thought it was not the first model year, how bad could it be?
Here’s what broke under 100k miles: Several stalling issues (common of this era Ford), check engine lights for EGR/Thermostats, rear diff blew up TWICE (it was a week design), front driveshaft, all wheel bearings (common on these), trans software shift issues, fuel pump died and left me stranded in cold weather, window motor, seat cover, blend door motor would only produce heat in the summer unless I repeatedly punched/kicked the dash just enough in the right places (I was too lazy to fix it), driver’s door cable snapped so the door wouldn’t stay closed (in winter…) and there are other things I’m certain I’ve blocked out because it was easily the worst car I’ve EVER owned. And I was a tech at Ford and took apart shit-loads of 2002-2004 Explorers…. I hate them all and wish they all get sent to the crusher. Strangely… Expeditions of the same era (pre-3v motors) were MUCH better.
I see the Trailblazer had it’s problems… but the 2002-2005(?) Explorers were worse
That is interesting to know – my friend has an 02 as a hand-me-down. It’s got massive mileage and has never had an issue aside from window motors which every old car has issues with. We just did a 1,000+ mile road trip. The rear diff makes noise (noticeable if you sit in the 3rd row) but it’s been making noise for 40,000 miles according to him. Note that his is 2wd though.
I guess that’s typical Ford QC. You can get a messed up one or a great one. I still see tons of these around despite cash for clunkers turning millions of them into silverware.
To be fair, the Ford Explorer was also the 4th best selling vehicle of 2002, so one would expect a high number of issues. Per capita failures would be much more useful.
https://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/top-10/top-10-best-selling-vehicles-in-2002.html
…(it was a week design)… As in it was liable to fail on any given week
I am just horrible at spelling/grammar….but this error is probably correct for the vehicle in question.
I just can’t picture this Explorer,
A V8, plus a modular V8, and an independent front suspension in the rear.
Is it like one if those twin engined cars where they grafted the front of a second Explorer into the rear of another?
That would actually be pretty awesome.
Lmfao!
IIRC in the first few years of that gen, 4WD variants had issues with the transmission due to a design where if the radiator cracked it would leak fluid into the transmission cooler, same in the Xterra and Frontier that shared the powertrain. Someone else can probably provide a better description, most of my quick searches are coming up with parts or CVT issues from the crossover gen.
Later years had it fixed and it wasn’t an issue for 2WDs (or manual Xterras/Frontiers) since they had different designs.
Alpha frame based trucks had this issue radiator/trans cooler contamination issue. Titans, Armadas, 2nd gen Xterras, 2nd gen frontiers, and 3rd gen pathfinders)
The best ones were the 2nd gen pathfinders (also QX4’s) 2001 or later because they had the 240/250 HP 3.5 VQ engine and you could abuse the crap out of them. The pre-2001 cars are decent too, those V6’s are even simpler and might even be slightly more reliable… they just had like 70 fewer HP so…. not quick.
Thanks, I knew for sure the V6s did, but wasn’t sure if it plagued the full-sizers with V8s too (but seems familiar now).
TL:DR Don’t buy V8 Nissan trucks/SUVs.
The V8’s….literally every singe one put in all Titans, Pathfinders, Armadas, and NV’s have another (expensive) issue. Their exaust manifolds all crack, like, literally all of them. Wouldn’t be a big deal on a Ford/GM, but the Nissan design isn’t case iron, they were sheetmetal and had the pre-cats welded to them. So… to replace the manifolds, you automatically have to replace 2 cats. Sure you can delete them… but not in all states.
Price for someone to do it for you is ~$2500-$3000 for both.
You might think, ah screw it, I’ll just drive with it cracked. Most people do this, and it could be ok until the cats get so clogged that they can break apart and something actually gets sucked back in to the engine destroying the otherwise dead-reliable 5.6L Endurance V8.
I learned all the above after owning a used 2009 Armada for a few years…glad it’s gone, the quality on so much of it was really bad.
Oddly enough the mid 90’s S10/Sonoma had this problem as well. Dexcool would rust the radiator from the inside out, leak into the trans cooler, and destroy the trans.
Ah yes… Dexcool….destroyer of seals. Sounds about right.
I owned (and still own) a bunch of Nissans. I am also a Toyota fan but at this point their prices just way out of reach.
To state the obvious, they tend to have more issues than Toyotas but if you know what to look for, they aren’t too terrible.
The general rule of thumb for the Frontier, Pathfinder and XTerra, Armada and Titan is try to buy a 2010+ one.
2005-2009 has more issues in general, the early VQ40DE has timing chain guide issues, catalytic converter issues, radiator failures when coolant gets mixed in the transmission fluid.
Early pre-2010 Titans had lots of rear diff issues and the above problems largely apply to them too.
I had one of these and beyond nonmail maintenance it needed a steering pump, intake manifold (jut ut side of warranty) , and stuck rear wiper (sieged motor), and rust along the lower doors. If you are shade tree mechanic you can keep one going for years at a low cost.
My step father’s tb has been on jack stands for two months because the motor/every single electrical part has been a complete pile of shit at 150k. Yet he bitches about my mum’s mkv rabbit I gave her which at 185k has needed brakes, fluids and a clutch slave cylinder.
Former Chevy dealer tech when the Trailblazer was new and also former Lexus GX 470 owner. There is no comparison, they are not even in the same class. The Lexus is quieter, more powerful, more stable, more reliable, more refined and tows better. There is a reason a Trailblazer is a $2,000 used car and a Lexus GX is a $20,000 used car.
Beat me to it. We unfortunately were the only GM shop in quite some ways for some of our customers. And of course, only selling new Buicks was no help. And those Trailblazers, fuck. They sold like mad, then ended up our goddamn boat anchors. Worse, GM also put it in the (MUCH nicer than the shitty Trailblazer but still unequivocally shit) Buick Rainier.
Fun Fact: a Vortec 4200 with 40k miles is the ONLY time I saw GM no-question warranty a complete longblock and ECU. Did not even bat an eye. No inspection windows, marginal forbidden glitter, no knock, and they just said do the whole engine without further diag. Then got extremely pissed off because they didn’t have the core basically 4 hours later. (Warranty book was 9 hours!)
And the electrical on those things. Oh fuck me were those things just complete and utter trash. We literally had to stock nearly all the splice kits. Between basically instantaneous connector corrosion, connectors that broke at the slightest provocation, and don’t even ask how many bad coil packs, completely nuked IPCs (FUCK whoever designed those,) and just… UGH.
A Chevy and a Lexus aren’t in the same class? News to me.
The point is the Chevy is a decent alternative for people that don’t have $40k for a build.
Calling Captain Vimes!
Too bad they never used the Atlas I6 in anything else. They should’ve used it in the Silverado, Colorado, Tahoe/Suburban, Camaro, G8/SS/Commodore, CTS, CT6, and others. It would’ve made for an awesome spiritual successor to the JZ and RB
They could’ve even made an Escalade V and CT6-V with a V12 made from doubling the Atlas.
It is the only postwar DOHC I6 from an American nameplate and will remain that way until Chrysler’s Hurricane I6 comes out.
If only they stuffed the atlas 4200 in every rwd/ longitudinal engine platform instead of the 3.6l v6…. look at what Ford Australia did with a turbo version of a similar size/layout in their large sedans
The I4 and I5 in the 1st gen Colorado/Canyon were from the Atlas engine family. The 5 cylinder was a disaster. The I6 would have been much better.
The GM product also has 20% of the reliability of a Toyota…
The real story here is that an engineer got married…. to a girl.
Do we know for sure she’s not a robot that he built?
The First-Gen Chevy TrailblazerCat Food Is A Great Low-CostToyota Land CruiserSteak AlternativePerhaps technically true but I’m not sure I can stomach it.
Hmm, why isn’t the 4th Gen 4Runner (2003-2009) being mentioned? As with the Lexus GX, it is based on the LC Prado, and could be had in that generation with the same V8 as the LC100 and the GX470. I have one (V6 version) and love it as an adventure mobile. Here in Missoula, MT, I see 4th gen 4Runners everywhere, and one or another LC100 almost every day. But I rarely see a Blazer or its badgemates, and never at a trailhead or FS campground.
That was in the back of my mind too reading this article as it was a direct competitor to the 360s, but then they aren’t cheap either. Though I still have a voice in the back of my mind saying to pick up such a 4Runner myself even though I don’t need one.
Yeah, you’ll be paying the same crazy Toyota tax for those 4Runners.
Agreed. I have an 03 with the V8 and it’s a fantastic vehicle, have kept for 16 years already and plan on for more. The only real ding has been rust on the front suspension parts. Still solid but I know going to be replacing soon.
Worked for GM as a tech when these things still had some warranty, and my god they’re terrible vehicles. They don’t really exist up here any more. There’s a reason for that.
Please don’t recommend these to anyone for any reason. They’re poorly made junk with a bunch of overpriced one-off components, AND they’re a pain in the ass to work on.
look at who wrote it 😉
Comapred to the shit he usually drives, the GMT360 is a fucking Toyota 😛
I had one of the much earlier S-10 Blazers, which these derived from, and the biggest issue I had with them was electrical. Started with bad battery from the factory, and forever had issues with it after that. Engine was solid though.
Very little of the early S10 series Blazer was shared with the Trailblazer… Maybe the grille bowtie, and some light bulbs.
The only thing I really knew about these is that the Vortec straight six is basically the American equivalent of Australia’s legendary Ford Barra straight six. Both have four valves per cylinder and have similar tuneability, but while Australians embraced the Barra, Americans ignored the Vortec for the most part so the aftermarket isn’t as good. It doesn’t help that Chevy never put the Vortec in anything sporty…
But it is a cool engine if you want something cheaper than an LS V8 and similar to a Barra. Plus there’s an inline five cylinder variant of it, which was even available in the Hummer of all things!
The barra is more tunable for sure because of its stronger bottom end. I think that’s the reason you don’t see a lot of Altas tuning.
I’ve heard of well over 500hp on stock atlas internals……. if that ain’t enough, I don’t know what is.
The Atlas had issues early on with dropping cylinder block bore sleeves. And shucking the 4L60E trans. And a shit-ton of electrical issues.
The 5 cylinder was a disaster.
I’m glad you remembered to change out of your Jeepin’/plowing suit and into your goin’ to town suite. Arnold Ziffel would approve.
As a Land Cruiser fan, y’all GMT360 lovers got us beat on the rust side of the argument. However, you can breathe on the GM cousins and they’ll roll-over! It might take a few more huffs and puffs to blow a Land Cruiser over…
How much was a normal rental car by comparison? Paying $80 plus dollars a day to drive a Trailblazer with 6 digits on its odometer is crazy to me.
DT is probably the first and only Turo customer to be scrolling through and see a clapped out Chevy Blazer for $80/day and can’t click fast enough.
There is a SIXT in Denver and they have the best selection of cars of any of the rental car companies. If he was willing to spend $10 or $20 more he could have gotten a really fun new car. Of course he would have to put up with SIXT’s customer service which is miles behind the big rental car companies but likely ahead of what he had to do on Turo. Avis also has a huge facility in Denver and if you ask nicely at the booth I have always been able to get something nice. Of course the Turo rental makes a story. Hopefully he planned ahead long enough to be able to drive through Rocky Mountain National Park – I think you need to plan ahead a few days to get a pass for driving through the park. A great alternative are the Denver Mountain Parks, which also sometimes require a little advanced planning, but maybe only a few hours for the popular places like Mt. Evans.
Last month I rented from Sixt in San Diego, it was the best rental experience I’ve ever had. Quick and easy, they were not at all pushy about extra insurance, and while we reserved a RAV4 “or similar”, we got a free upgrade to a BMW X2 when we went to pick up. Total cost for 4 days was 190-ish. I had briefly looked at Truro, but the extra fees turned me off. We were going to rent a 22 Sportage SX from them for 38/day, which would have been 88/day with fees.
I’m sure Enterhertz could’ve put David into a Nissan Versa Or Similar for that price or less but then DT wouldn’t get an article from it making it potentially tax-deductible.
Then again, having to stop a good friend before he Turo’s for someone’s major life event again gives Jason a deadline for getting the Torchbug running since by my calculations Otto’s bar mitzvah is coming up.
I have mixed feelings about the GMT360. I bought an Envoy XL with squirrel chewed engine harness for about $800. Fixed the harness, replaced a VVT solenoid, replaced the power steering hoses (what a ball-ache of a job) and spent way too much time cleaning the interior for what I managed to sell it for.
I drove that thing from KS to Pikes Peak and… it was honestly pretty damn good. It drove great, it ran great and other than an out of balance tire it was very comfortable. I turned the rear AC vent to the back of my neck and cranked it max…. pure bliss.
That said, I still sold it. I had thoughts about making it an adventure vehicle, but with lift being limited by the differential mounting and front suspension design as well as the wheelbase being a bit long since it was an XL… it just didn’t suit my fancy. I feel like it was just a few engineering choices away from being great and most of that impression comes from the front suspension.
Otherwise the interior was totally fine or at the very least par for the course of the time. The drivetrain was excellent (I really do like that 4200) and could only have been improved with a 6 speed auto to help it stay where it made power. Chassis dynamics and noise were honestly very good. All in all I think I’d give it a solid 7 out of 10, but could be talked into an 8.
Several variants could be had with a 5.3 V8, too, just in case you shrug at the Atlas. The Saab 9-7x allegedly could be had with an LS2.
I personally liked the Bravadas as an extremely cheap way to get all the options. I mean, who wants to drive an Oldsmobile? Nobody, that’s who.
The 97-X Aero was identical to the TBSS. 400HP LS2 and a Torsen mechanical limited slip center diff. I would still love to own one of those.
Normally I prefer the Olds variant in a round of GM badgeapalooza, but the final Bravada I liked least out of the 360s. The newer Olds design language didn’t fit quite right to me, mostly the nose, but rehashing it as the Rainier tidied it up. But then, your point was how to get more features per dollar most cheaply, which the earlier examples from the deceased brand would definitely do it.
I had the V8 in a Rainier – no complaints or major issues, but only through about 60k before the ex killed it in a flooded viaduct.
I’ve owned 2 of the Saab whatchacallits with a hyphen (9-7X). Maybe its not much of a compliment, but they are easily the best of the GMT-360s. The leather is a cut above normal GM leather, not falling apart on the drivers seat even after 15+ years and 175K miles. Overall Saab made it a much nicer place to be over the TB. Minus the dash mounted cup holder, which is a POS.
I really enjoyed them both. Yes, there are issues, but anyone comfy with any domestic of the period is already fine with those issues.
The Atlas motor has the advantage of a common 5 speed transmission that is pretty durable (MA5), which makes a cool swap. However, my experience is that there are always 4 of them for sale around me with a failed crank bearing. So I don’t really trust the bottom end.
Both of mine were 5.3 LS based engines. I deleted AFM on both, one mechanically and one just in the ECU, and have had thousands of miles of relatively trouble free ownership. And that includes a pretty fair number of miles towing a loaded 3 horse trailer or a car hauler.
The Saab also came with air springs in the rear and auto leveling and it worked fantastically. Very comfortable to drive loaded or unloaded.
The front suspension design creates lift and tire size limitations. The lug pattern is exclusive to the chassis (its different from all other GM 6 lug until maybe recently?), which always annoyed me.
So overall, I’m a fan of the 360s, even if they were badge engineered to every single brand owned by GM.
I was going to make a similar point about the 9-7x being an even better example as a Land Cruiser “replacement” since the interior was so much more refined over the other GM clones. I loved my 9-7x.
Didn’t they also put the Saab-standard console ignition in the 9-7X? Makes it awesome by default.
Yes they did. Unfortunately, that really screwed up the cup holder situation.
What exactly about the front suspension limits lift? Just that it’s IFS?
Even IFS Toyotas are limited to lift heights, one really can’t go beyond 2-3″ of lift without major work. And relatively small wheel wells and poor chassis clearance makes fitting tires larger than 33″ a struggle. You can lift a new 4Runner 3″ (not really ideal) and only be able to go up one or two tire sizes from stock (31.5 to 32.8-ish) without major rubbing.
Here’s the issue: They’re worth nothing, so if you hit any major repairs, unless you want to invest the time doing everything yourself, it’s just not financially a good idea. That same amount of time could be spent improving a GX and then it’s worth a decent chunk of change.
Its true but by the same note, they can be considered almost disposable. Blow one up, get another and it STILL costs significantly less than the ToyLexus siblings.
Factor in the towing costs and inconvenience and time of being stranded and shopping for another, are you really ahead? Buy an ugly, older Toyota and you’re done.
Agreed. Living the beater life is exhausting. Even if you are coming out ahead $/mile after repairs (because your cost of entry was so low) nobody wants to dump $$$ into something that cost them $. It just goes against human nature, even if it balances out on a spreadsheet.
End of the day, the anxiety is a subtle destabilizing effect on your lifestyle. The cruel reality is any buyer shopping in the used Trailblazer market in 2023 is probably not there because of their spreadsheet abilities, or truly have the cash flow for the ongoing costs of ownership.
I mean…they are both cars? The Atlas engines were good engines, and some people swap them into 80 series with good results, but the Atlas was the ONLY good thing about the GMT360. The 4L60e is trash, the interior and exterior is typical GM of the time – a 150,000 mile Chevy looks worse than a 300,000 mile Toyota/Lexus. And they really aren’t good off-road, If I remember they had to make a special pan for these motors for the front axles to drive through. Wonky.
I know exactly the pan you’re talking about, and yeah it’s def wonky.
I am used to hot takes on the Autopian, but comparing these to a Land Cruiser or even the Prado/GX470 is a bad take…
There is a reason that the Toyotas have the reputation they have: they are unkillable (sans for some rust issues). Go to any junk yard in the US and these Trailblazers can be found by the dozens. Land Cruisers? Probably not. Sure, some folks have had good luck with the straight-6, but God forbid you need to do a headgasket job (which is more common that you’d expect). The head studs just snap off! Also, actually compare one of these to a GX of the same vintage and you will have less leaks, electrical gremlins, etc. on the GX.
The biggest answer to whether this is even a competitor is: would anyone in their right mind take one of these on an actual overland expedition? Probably not. As Clarkson said: if you want to get there, take a Land Rover. If you want to get back, take a Land Cruiser.
Lots of GX owners aren’t going on overlanding expeditions, either. They’re looking for a spacious, thoroughly comfortable machine that can do some moderate off-roading and that won’t be a total piece of junk. The Trailblazer accomplishes those quite well for a fraction of an LC’s cost.
If you want to do some real hard-core stuff and do a full build, as I say in the story — the Trailblazer not the move. But if not, and especially if you’re on a tight budget, it’s not a bad alternative.
One big difference between the GX and the TB is the first owners. The beauty of the GX (which made it the best kept secret in the Toyota offroad circles for a while) was that it was essentially a beefier 4th gen V8 4runner owned by affluent people who never offroaded them and always maintained them through the dealership. The TB was owned by families that generally used the heck out of the vehicle before passing it down to their teenagers to drive in high school. The best comparison would be the first gen Sequoia, but even that had a beefier, more reliable drivetrain.
I do agree that Lexus LX/GXs’ reliability reputation is benefited from having affluent owners.
You’d definitely have to consider the TB’s history when buying.
It’s a double edged sword. If you have a car that doesn’t break, then people never take them in to be serviced. The best ones are the ones who’s affluent owners followed all recommended maintenance, but truthfully, that usually ended about 100-200 k miles ago and the 2nd, 3rd owners only fixed what broke. So if you are buying a high mile Toyota/Lexus you probably are buying a lot of neglected maintenance which puts them on par with other high mile cars. In which case their reliability is even more special. If you take 2 cars with equally neglected pasts, you can safely assume the Land Cruiser will be in better shape or have more life left in it.
I believe that. Two most reliable cars I’ve ever owned: 265,000 mile LC, 265,000 mile 5spd ZJ. Both ran and drove like champs; ZJ did need a clutch, LC did have a brake fluid leak. But for the most part, great machines.
Edit: Of the two of them, the Lexus actually looked good, while the ZJ looked horrid (bad paint). Man that Toyota paint is GOOD.
The logical conclusion is that the ideal car is a used Alfa, and I’m not sure I agree.
I liked the article. Makes you realize that the US land cruisers aren’t really that versatile of an off roader. Also, trailblazers can do “overlanding” just as good as a Land Cruiser because “overlanding” is what we used to call “let’s drive the truck 10 miles down a fire road and set up a camp”
I’m not a fan of the way the seat-mounted seatbelt digs into my neck. It really cuts into the comfort of the Trailblazer.
Not so much that I didn’t like mine, but it’s the one pain point that I ever had with it.
My in-laws have had at least 4 Trailblazers as beater vehicles, to haul yard debris and tow their boat around, and that’s the reason I bought ours for the same uses.
Hmm. Are you tall? I’m 5’8″ and thought it was fine, though I only drove for a few hours at a time.
One could argue this is actually the second-generation Trailblazer, since the name Trailblazer first showed up on what was the S-series Blazer a year or so before these came into production. Though I suppose it could also be argued that it was just a trim level, but to those that would I will say that the name ‘Blazer’ appeared nowhere on those S-series vehicles; only ‘Trailblazer’ was outwardly displayed.
I came to comment on the same thing. The 2nd Gen S-10 Blazers had an option package that called them TrailBlazers (I believe GMC had an Envoy version of the S-15 Jimmy as well) but to your point it was more a badge change then any real difference in performance.
A friend of mine had one of the early “Trailblazers”. She bought it new (damn I’m that old) and it was actually pretty nice for that generation of Blazer. It was a luxo pkg rather than an off-roader, I remember the seats were quite comfy, and heated, which I thought was awesome in 1999.
What car did you fix while wearing the suit ?
The suit was white before the trip.