The New Honda Civic Hybrid Should Get Nearly 50 MPG Combined

2025 Honda Civic Hybrid Ts
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As soon as it was announced, the 2025 Honda Civic Hybrid had our attention. We liked our time in the current Accord Hybrid, and we liked living with the Civic Si for a week, so the prospect of combining aspects of both seemed mighty tantalizing. Well, more details on the new Civic Hybrid are out, and it should let drivers have their cake and eat it too, with Honda claiming combined fuel economy “nearing 50 mpg” along with 232 lb.-ft. of torque.

Under the hood sits a naturally aspirated two-liter four-cylinder engine with a power-split eCVT incorporating dual motor/generator units. While this may sound complicated, it means the Civic Hybrid gets CVT efficiency without the god-awful belts and cones you get on a normal CVT, and it should finally move past the oil dilution issues of the 1.5-liter turbocharged engine optional on the outgoing model while offering higher output.

No matter which way you slice it, 232 lb.-ft. of torque in a compact car is stout, and 200 horsepower puts this thing on the level with the picante Civic Si. Far out. Interestingly enough, the Civic Hybrid also features fake gearshifts despite there not being any gears to shift. Honda calls it “Linear Shift Control” and it should simulate a normal automatic transmission.

13 2025 Honda Civic Hybrid Powertrain

This means that the steering wheel-mounted paddle shifters don’t change any physical gears, but they do let drivers cycle through four levels of regenerative braking, an unusual yet appreciated move for a hybrid. In theory, a 2025 Honda Civic Hybrid driver should be able to dial in exactly the right amount of regen to hold speed down a steep hill and charge the battery, although we’ll have to put tire to pavement to confirm. Speaking of things we’d like to test, Honda’s revised the spring rates and dampers exclusively for hybrid models, and added what it calls “Active Noise Control” which aims to cancel out low-frequency sounds.

12 2025 Honda Civic Hatchback Sport Touring Hybrid

All 2025 Honda Civic Hybrids come with some nice kit like 18-inch alloy wheels, heated front seats, a moonroof, dual-zone automatic climate control, and front USB-C ports, but the range-topping Sport Touring Hybrid trim takes things to the next level. We’re talking about a decent 12-speaker Bose sound system if the outgoing car is anything to go on, a nine-inch infotainment touchscreen with wireless Apple CarPlay and Android Auto, a wireless smartphone charger, Google built-in, and wheel resonators to kill even more tire noise.

05 2025 Honda Civic Sedan Sport Touring Hybrid

In addition to the hybrid powertrain and added kit, there’s some new styling we should briefly discuss. Up front, a honeycomb mesh front grille combines with a larger bumper air intake to add a bit of aggression. In addition, Honda’s deleted the large fake corner grilles with inset fog lamps, replacing them with subtle air curtains to clean up the front fascia. Around the side, things are more or less the same as they ever were, but out back, subtly darker taillights on hybrid sedan models are a very ‘if you know, you know’ nod to electrification.

01 2025 Honda Civic Sedan Sport Touring Hybrid (1) Copy

08 2025 Honda Civic Hatchback Sport Touring Hybrid

Oh, and if you don’t want or can’t swing the hybrid powertrain, other options still exist. Civic LX and Sport models come with just a normal two-liter naturally aspirated four-cylinder engine, while Sport Hybrid and Sport Touring Hybrid trims get the electrified powertrain. There’s no mention of the turbocharged, manual-only Si trim yet, although don’t be surprised if that comes along later.

03 2025 Honda Civic Sedan Sport Touring Hybrid

Speaking of timing, expect the updated Civic sedan to arrive at American dealerships next month, with the hatchback following along later this summer. Honda expects 40 percent of all U.S.-market Civics and 60 percent of all Canadian Civics to feature the hybrid powertrain, so don’t be surprised to soon see plenty on the ground if you’re in the market. Detailed pricing hasn’t been announced yet, but we won’t be waiting long. With plenty of power and great economy on paper, the 2025 Honda Civic Hybrid seems like a strong contender for the ultimate daily driver.

Photo credits: Honda

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116 thoughts on “The New Honda Civic Hybrid Should Get Nearly 50 MPG Combined”

  1. This is an accord. Not a civic. Drove past one the other day, it was directly behind a 2008 accord, they were basically the same size. This may be a great car but imho it’s not a civic at all. It’s gigantic.

    Also, that giant fake lower grill, lmao. Look how much of it is solid. 90s cars had zero fake BS, and newer stuff is just getting so bad. Yuck.

      1. In defense of the RS, those were real hood scoops for turbocharged engines on the WRX. We just got the same exterior with the lame 160hp engine. I don’t know about the other ones. I guess Toyota had an SUV with a fake hood scoop, but I think we all laughed at that back then, as well.

  2. I am sorry, but I still feel like we are not moving forward with this tech if the MPG is not closer to 100 MPG by now. I imagine it has to do with increased sizes and weights, but I recall HE civics and Corollas getting very nearly 50 MPG in the late nineties with just a basic NA gas motor.

    1. They also folded like a tin can when in a crash.

      The 50MPG now comes with the ability to hit a wall going 70mph and walk away merely sad at your insurance premiums going up.

    2. Those cars had about half of the horsepower this new Civic has and got 40mpg at best. 106HP just isn’t acceptable in 2024. Most people would much rather have 200hp and mpg in the high 40s.

    3. My 1987 CRX HF got 50-55 MPG with a 1.5 L NA engine putting out 60 hp and a 5 speed manual. It was tiny (1713 lbs!) compared to my 2020 Civic Sport Hatch and driving next to big rigs was nerve wracking. My 2020 gets 35-40 MPG with a 1.5 L turbo (180 hp) and a 6-speed stick, but weighs almost twice as much (2,881 lbs.)

  3. The power is fine, but as someone who used to own a ’22 Si, the fun was not in the power (though I never felt sluggish), but rather it was in the gearbox and especially in the LSD. So I don’t think this compares as favorably to the Si as people are suggesting.

    2. Yeah a 0-60 comparison will probably make that a little clearer. Obviously not as clear as test-driving both but I’ll be seriously looking at the hybrid hatch. As much as enthusiasts love manual transmissions, most new car buyers would rather have this automatic than an Si.

  4. I hope that they’ve gotten the noise cancelling to stop booming and improved the shift from regen braking to hydraulic braking. My parents’s Accord is jarring

  5. Honda waited so long to release the civic hybrid the prius stole all their thunder. that being said more competition is always good.

    1. After being first to market with a hybrid, Honda has definitely fallen behind Toyota in the hybrid race. They did offer a Civic hybrid back in the aughts (my niece loved hers), then an Accord V-6 hybrid, and then a 4-cylinder Accord plug-in hybrid in the mid-teens. All were discontinued. So it’s good to see this one, and hopefully they’ll keep it around more than just a year or two. That being said, the 2025 Camry hybrid, a larger vehicle with a larger ICE, is expected to get similar MPG to this Civic (depending on wheel size etc.).

      1. I’m guessing it’s supply and demand. Honda offers TONS of hybrid options in europe and asia but the offerings in north america has been lacking for the last 10 years.

    2. The 2nd generation Insight was basically their “Prius fighter”. It even looked like a Prius. The Prius got better fuel economy though.

      Honda packed in the “Insight” name until it came out with that Civic-sized sedan a few years ago.

  6. My wife and I just brought home a lightly used 2023 Civic Si. Living in Maine with many 50mph roads, it’s gotten 49.0mpg if we skip to 6th gear and drive gently (yay for manual transmissions). Of course it’s also fun to drive like Senna, and it still manages 23-25mpg. It’s just enough of what we need and also fun to drive. Perfect for a daily driver and occasional autocross.

  8. I’m confused – What exactly is an “eCVT”
    Is it just an electric motor unit?
    If so, then what’s the point of a 200+ hp engine and tons of torque when it’s not actually pulling the car?

    1. If it is anything like the transmission on a Prius, imagine having a garden variety rear axle and differential. Now imagine, putting an internal combustion engine where one of the wheels would attach, and an electric motor where the other wheel would attach. Then attach the pinion of the differential that would normally go to the driveshaft to whatever sort of drive is appropriate for the car we’re talking about, say another rear axle. Now what happens is that by varying the speed of the electric motor you are changing the effective gear ratio of the internal combustion engine to the pinion. So for example, you could have the internal combustion engine running at a constant speed and the electric motor/generator charging the battery by turning backwards at the same speed as the internal combustion engine. If you apply power to the electric motor enough to make it stall, the internal combustion engine is feeding power through the differential at a one-to-one ratio. Spin the electric motor at a high speed, and the internal combustion engine is geared up to a higher, actually numerically, lower, ratio.

      Of course you could have the internal combustion engine stopped, and the electric motor could be driving the vehicle.

      Hey Autopian editors! An actual engineer ought to write an article about how these things work. I’m just an old art major that grew up on a farm and has seen old rear axles out of cars used as clutches and transmissions for haybale cranes and recognizes the mechanics.

      Calling these a CVT is about as accurate as calling a NYC subway car a “tracked vehicle”. I mean it runs on tracks and it is a vehicle but…

        1. The Honda system is pretty simple.

          The starter/generator is bolted to the crank shaft and its job is to act like a motor to start the engine and once the engine is running operate as a generator.

          The 2nd motor the traction motor/generator’s output is connected to the wheels.

          There is a clutch that can be engaged above a certain speed (usually 50 something) to connect the starter/generator to the wheels at a fixed ratio.

          So most of the time it operates as a serial hybrid where the starter/gen powered by the engine generates the electricity required by the traction motor to meet the desired output to the wheels.

          When the engine can’t meet demand by itself or the battery SOC is high the traction motor receives power from both the battery and starter/gen.

          When regen braking is desired the traction motor is operated as a generator and used to charge the traction battery.

          When the battery SOC is low and traction motor demand is low then the power generated by the starter/generator is used to power the traction motor and charge the battery.

          Once the vehicle reaches a minimum speed that clutch is engaged the engine drives the wheels at a fixed ratio. The starter/gen is then pretty much just along for the ride. The traction motor can do nothing, provide some extra torque via the battery, or charge the battery.

          So no it isn’t really a CVT at all it just seems like one below certain speeds and then operates at a fixed ratio above that speed.

      2. The Honda system is not at all like the Toyota system which functions as you describe.

        The Honda 2 motor system is set up where the starter/generator is connected directly to the engine in place of a flywheel. The traction motor is connected to the final drive. In low to mid speed ranges there is no mechanical connection between the engine and the wheels. Once the vehicle reaches a certain speed a clutch is engaged which does connect the engine to the wheels.

        Exact operation depends on a number of factors but it can operate in 3 basic modes.

        1. Engine is operated at the required rpm to allow the starter/gen to generated the current required for the desired traction motor output.
        2. Engine is operated such that it generates more current than the current traction motor demand so excess current is used to charge the traction battery. This is usually done when traction battery SOC is low or when getting the engine up to operating temp.
        3. Engine is not capable of meeting traction motor demand (or battery SOC is greater than target SOC) so the battery and starter generator both provide power to the traction motor.

        Now once the vehicle is above the specific speed a clutch does engage a direct link between the starter/gen and the wheels*. At this point both motors are pretty much just along for the ride at steady state speeds neither generating or consuming current.

        *The CR-V is different than the Accord and Civic system in that instead of a single fixed ratio between the engine and wheels it has an additional reduction gear and clutch to operate it so that the engine can be connected to the wheels at a lower speeds.

        1. Thanks for the correction. I just couldn’t parse that description, and that would certainly explain why I couldn’t figure out the transmission since it just has a clutch.

          Does the traction motor offer regenerative braking?

          Sounds like the Honda is more like the Chevy Volt , except of course that it isn’t a plugin but I have a hard time keeping all these systems straight, I may be misremembering the Volt system.

          I kind of like the simplicity of the Toyota system. Seems like the Honda would struggle at high speeds unless they are doing some clever stuff with valve timing to switch from atkinson cycle to otto cycle to spread the torque band but still keep efficiency.

          Still wrapping my mind around this.

          1. Yes the traction motor does the regen braking and in certain circumstances the starter/gen could also do regen braking but I don’t know if they actually do that or not.

            It someways it is similar to the Volt in that it has a large traction motor and a way to disconnect everything but the traction motor from the wheels. On the other hand in hybrid mode it can operate like the Toyota system.

          2. I’ve been over 95 in my Honda Clarity PHEV and I can assure you that it does not struggle at high speeds. I don’t think there’s any change in valve timing involved. The gas engine does get a bit noisy at speeds above 85, though. Even during one hour trips when I’m often over 80 mph, I’m still getting better than 35 mpg when using gas.

      1. Yeah, very much like Toyota’s system.
        It doesn’t go into how the gears integrate ( in the math sense of the word integrate) the output of the two power sources, and that’s the truly interesting part.

        By the way, if there were a way to attach an electric motor to the spider gears in a differential, you could do neat torque vectoring tricks. That’s sort of what is happening here.

  9. Interestingly enough, the Civic Hybrid also features fake gearshifts despite there not being any gears to shift. Honda calls it “Linear Shift Control” and it should simulate a normal automatic transmission.

    Boo. That is all.

    1. They used to have the Clarity, but they currently have no US-market PHEVs. Europe gets the CRV as PHEV. I don’t know of any other current ones from them or any known plans to offer more.

    4. They did have a PHEV Accord for a couple of years. I find it surprising that Honda hasn’t offered it in a while. Their hybrid system is optimized for PHEV applications with a more powerful traction motor than the Toyota or Ford hybrids and a clutch that completely disengages everything from the wheels except the traction motor.

    1. Seems that way. That would have been a strong contender if I needed a new car, more than the Civic Si (hatch, and a lot more content for not a lot more $) and over the Integra (more for the price difference). But the limited color choices always disappointed me. I imagine the Si and Integra will still offer the manual throughout this run, I imagine it might get a refresh next year and it could stand to add a couple features for the price its going for. Perhaps they’d even expand availability of the manual to another trim on the Integra now that the Civic hatch doesn’t offer it, although that seems incredibly unlikely.

      1. Yeah, I’d expect the Integra to go Hybrid also soon.

        I’d get the SI but I want a hatchback and heated seats. The Type-R is a little too serious for my needs for this car. I don’t find either version very attractive, but I do slightly prefer the styling of the Civic to the Integra.

        1. Agreed on all. If I forego a clutch on a new car the hybrid Civic would actually be a strong candidate, but as far as manual options Honda hasn’t quite made a version of the Civic in my ideal format yet. I test drove a Civic Sport hatch in 2018 when I last shopped, but it would have taken a lot to sway me since it was pretty barren in features (still doesn’t have variable intermittent wipers to this day, cmon Honda) and the manual Sport Touring didn’t exist for another year or two.

          I like the Integra, but on top of the price premium would rather not give up that little bit of hatch access vs. the Civic hatch.

  13. I’ve found myself more interested in the idea of one of these recently than I would have expected just a few months ago. I am glad they don’t lock you into a black interior on the “Sport” hybrids as Honda has tended to do more and more in recent years.

    Would be nice if they had released a picture of an actual car to show the new colors or wheels, not sure why they seem to continue to hire GM’s CGI “photographers.”

    A Prius will probably be rated for a couple miles per gallon more, but the Civic is much roomier inside. Camry is close, but I’d go for the smaller size and comparably equipped there’s still probably going to be a good amount of room in price between them. However both seem to make the argument for the Accord tougher, the Civic seems like it’ll do about everything the Accord hybrid does for less, and if you do need the extra space the Camry seems to price out for less even adding options.

  14. Tell me more about this noise reduction tech. It’s really interesting to see economy models get it. Would love to see a segment on this website about it. Second Skin Audio has some good stuff over the last 10+ years.

    I’ve done 3 sound insulation projects on my sport compact cars over the years and the results are well worth it if you have the time. It’s kind of rudimentary taking apart the interior and coating the wheel wells so if there’s real engineering strategies a home mechanic can implement I’d be 100% down to try those.

      2. Exactly.
        It’s cheap and easy to program the stereo speakers to make noise cancelling noises these days. The weight savings is worth an MPG or two, and the materials savings is worth more than a few bucks.

  15. I have been toying between a Civic Si or Type R purchase for next year. Of course, neither are available to sit in, and nothing on Toro.

    The Accord Hybrid impressed me with its sportiness and pep when we shopped our family sedan in the fall. If this Civic Hybrid brings that to the table, I might be sold. I would love a 6 speed, but that hybrid instant torque is pretty neat as well.

    Conflicted.

    1. I had a 2022 Civic Si and now have a 2018 Civic Type R. The Si is a great daily driver and overall car, but no where near the engagement or fun as the R. If you can find a 2020 Civic Si sedan, its basically identical to drive as the current Si, with very similarly shaped seats.

  17. Glad to see there is some other options in case my Prius gets totaled by a Yukon Denali driver not paying attention to the road.

    I might even prefer the Civic since it has an actual sunroof, which I don’t think the Prius has (the Prius has a glass roof thing, which I think is fixed, and useless to me as a feature).

    No interest in fake gear shifts though. And don’t need 18″ (or 19″ Toyota) wheels on a car intended to be fuel efficient. I’ll take something with more sidewall and cheaper to replace.

    1. I think the gear shift thing is a holdover from original CVTs and the loudest people just not understanding how these things work and absolutely convinced that something is wrong and can’t be told otherwise.

      1. I had a shitbox Jeep Patriot with a cvt and it screamed everywhere and was especially annoying since it didn’t have much in the way of sound deadening.

    3. -The fake gears are handy when you want to hold a steady speed while going downhill without continuously riding the brakes. Such as going down Forest Service roads of dirt/gravel in my wife’s Subaru.
      -Or you’re going up an incline and you want to keep revs up a bit instead of lugging.
      -We used to have a 07 Ford Freestyle with CVT that only had choice of D or L. Fine on interstate/around town, but not for soft roading. Used to joke that it needed a knob on dash to adjust your ratio.

  19. “All 2025 Honda Civic Hybrids come with some nice kit like 18-inch alloy wheels, heated front seats, a moonroof, dual-zone automatic climate control, and front USB-C ports, but the range-topping Sport Touring Hybrid trim takes things to the next level. “

    To me, some of that ‘nice kit’ is actually a negative. 18″ wheels? I’d rather have smaller wheels and more tire sidewall for a smoother ride, lower tire replacement costs and lower risk of a damaged wheel if I hit a pothole.

    Dual zone climate control? I’d rather have a cheaper single-zone unit.

    Moonroof? No thanks… just give me a normal metal roof.

    And that’s the problem that makes ‘entry level’ vehicles so expensive… all this unneeded crap that is used to justify jacking up the MSRP.

    What I would like to see is the return of the Honda DX trim… decently equipped without the unnecessary luxury items. And I’d like to see a regular DX and a
    “hybrid DX”.

    1. Yeah, just give me base steelies with some hubcaps, basic wired AA/Carplay without a wireless charger, base roof, no heated seats (but let me add them without adding $2000 of other crap), a simple cold/hot a/c setting, I don’t need auto temperature sensing and dual zone.
      I would like rear air vents in the middle at least, though. Those are nice for rear seat passengers.

    2. Amen. I “downgraded” the 17s on my Fiesta ST to 16s for better comfort on shitty city streets, had infinitely more confidence parallel parking not worrying about my rims getting scratched on curbs as low as 1″, cheaper tires, AND I gained 1+ MPG.

      I guess the only con is it obviously made my dick smaller having smaller wheels.

    4. I think the reason automakers don’t like selling “stripper models” is because they likely lose money on most of them. The big, expensive parts (bodies, suspensions, powertrains, etc.) are often the same as the higher trims. Adding a bunch of luxury goodies, which don’t cost them much extra relative to the standard items, gives them justification to charge considerably more.

      1. “ Adding a bunch of luxury goodies, which don’t cost them much extra relative to the standard items, gives them justification to charge considerably more.”

        Yup… and I feel that it has really gotten out of hand in recent years.

        1. for real, we’ve been shopping for a lightly used CX5 for my wife and I literally can’t tell the difference between the top 3 trim levels besides that they probably have a bunch of gimmicks I don’t care about-but somehow knew this justifies a nearly $10K price spread between base to top of the line (if you ignore the turbo engine option)

    5. I remember the DX trim being full penalty box spec. Pretty sure DX trims didn’t have a standard radio, passenger side rearview mirror and had crank windows.

    6. One reason I got the cheap trim GR86 was for the 17s and I didn’t want heated seats or other junk. Steering headlights, maybe, but the replacement costs are an issue and it came with the other BS. With the 17s it rides really nice—yeah, it’s stiff, but it shrugs off potholes and glides over broken pavement that rattles most of the other CUVs and higher end sedans I’ve been in or driven in the last 10 years and the handling is superb. Cerberus, we’re talking about economy cars. Hold on, the ’86 was cheaper than the most basic Civic hatch that could be had with a manual (if I could get one) and not even $2k more than a Corolla hatch (if I could find one with a manual) and averages over 30 mpg (though not that much over). OK, that’s not amazing mileage for an “economy” car unless that was 15 years ago, but the rest of the package makes up for it.

  20. “nearing 50 mpg”

    I get that Toyota is top of the heap for hybrids, but I would have expected the Civic to get better than 50 mpg combined. The low-trim Camry does. The Accord’s 51/44 is nearing 50 mpg (combined 48).

    Not that this is bad. Just a bit surprised.

    1. Most likely Honda would point to the Sport Accords as a “true” comparison which are 46/41/44, and other Camrys are 48/47/47.

      I think some diminishing returns also come into play for small vs. medium cars. Even for Toyota, the Corolla hybrid (maybe older tech hybrid though) is 53/46/50 for the LE, 50/43/47 SE, pretty close the Camry, and also true of the nonhybrids, the base Corolla 2.0/CVT is 32/41/35, outgoing Camry 2.5/8AT 28/39/32.

      Honda we can compare the same engines, the outgoing Civic EX 1.5T is 33/42/36, an Accord 1.5T is 29/37/32, so a bit wider of a gap, although the standard 2022 Accord 1.5T was a tick better at 30/38/33.

      1. Both Honda and Toyota are going with sportier hybrids as the solution for a lot of their “faster” commodity cars. Toyota is replacing nearly all their V6s and V8s with the Hybrid Max powertrain. I’d imagine this is largely due to emissions regulations and them not wanting to be bothered with developing new ICE engines this late in the game…they also offer better fuel economy, although don’t expect traditional hybrid MPG out of them.

        Honda is doing the same. The “sport” trims of most of their commodity vehicles are now hybrids. I think it makes a lot of sense…the hybrids emit less, are much more efficient, can provide usable added daily driving performance due to the increased torque, and at this stage are probably more reliable long term than overboosted engines are.

        The Honda and Toyota hybrid technology has 25 years of engineering in it at this point…and I see ancient Priuses, Civic Hybrids, etc. all the time. It’s all very well sorted at this stage.

        1. Yep! My family went pretty hard into hybrids starting in 1999 and have not been disappointed with anything but the Ford Escape. (Okay, all of the rest were Toyota or Lexus, but still a good track record.)

        2. That and hybrids aren’t the only game in town for more efficient options any more with the rise of EVs. Or even performance for that matter.

          I’d like to see Honda lean less into the sport shtick (even though I’d be more likely to buy such myself) but that goes for all their trims really. The basic premise still makes sense when it comes to ‘mainstreaming’ hybrid versions.

          And it’s also a far cry from attempts at sport hybrids 10-20 years ago, like the first Accord hybrid.

    3. I had a long term Corolla Hybrid loaner. A great car for the money as an “it’s a car, it’s cheap, it shouldn’t have reliability problems, and it’s too boring and ugly to GAF about it”, but terrible to drive. If the Civic is a better drive (very likely) and roomier (I think so, but I didn’t pay much attention when I was last in the Civic—it certainly seemed larger), a few mpg less of likely piss gas anywhere near 50 mpg is going to be very minimal extra cost for real benefits.

  21. Maybe this Honda hybrid will get closer to its advertised numbers than my 2015 Accord Hybrid. Its been a fantastic car just did not deliver on its 50cty/47hwy numbers. I think the best I’ve ever achieved on a tank was 42 mpg with me actively trying to eek it out and no hvac.

  22. I’m legitimately very excited about this, and with the combination of more torque/all of said torque being available right away due to electrification, it would surprise me very little if this winds up being faster than the SI. Even if it doesn’t time any better it’ll absolutely be easier to commute with and throw around at low speeds.

    If they make an Integra version I’d legitimately think long and hard about buying one…but we’ll see if that happens. Acura currently has 0 electrification outside of the ZDX, which is a GM product. For whatever reason Honda hasn’t had any desire to sell hybrid Acuras…but perhaps this might change that.

    An Integra that gets close to 50 MPG would sit in a very, very unique market segment. Outside of the retirement home levels of engagement offering Lexus ES and the much more expensive Volvo and BMW PHEVs, there really aren’t any hybrid luxury sedans out there.

  23. Honda expects 40 percent of all U.S.-market Civics and 60 percent of all Canadian Civics to feature the hybrid powertrain

    I wonder why there’s such a large discrepancy here. Is the payoff for the hybrid quicker with Canada’s higher gas prices? Seems unlikely to me that many economy car buyers are doing complicated math to determine breakeven points, but then again there’s no other reason I can think of that Canadians would be so much more likely to go for the hybrid.

    1. Part of it’s due to gas prices, part of it’s due to how both countries buy cars. Canadians are more likely to go for the loaded version of a smaller car than step up to a bigger car, and weirdly enough, it’s not just a gas prices thing. We saw that to the extreme in the pre-AMG-lite days, when Canada bought the highest ratio of AMGs to regular Mercedes-Benzes of any country on earth, with models like the C63 leading the charge.

      1. Canadians are more likely to go for the loaded version of a smaller car than step up to a bigger car

        Well, now I have another question then.

        If anything, Canada seems even less space constrained than the US, so I wonder why this is.

            1. Nope. My reasoning though is that I’d rather have a nicer/more optioned car even if it means stepping down one model. Maybe Canadians just tend to think like that?

        3. Is Canada less space constrained when you consider how the population is distributed? From what I recall reading in the past, a very high percentage of Canadians live in a handful of metropolitan areas relatively close to the US border (with a substantial percent of those living within the city limits of Toronto and Montreal), and the majority of Canadian land is essentially uninhabited.

          If this is true, it seems like a higher percentage of Canadians might live and/or regularly drive in dense cities than Americans. Maybe that could account for Canadian preferences for high-spec small cars over larger vehicles (assuming that is true)?

            1. I’m familiar with those statistics, but I don’t think they tell the whole story. I was curious so I looked at what percentages of Americans and Canadians live in cities with a population density of >10,000 per square mile. Based on the data I found, it appears 4.5 million or 11% of Canadians live in areas with a density of >10,000 per square mile vs 12.5 million or 3.7% of Americans.

              I spent a whole 7 minutes researching this so I am not going to pretend this is the definitive treatise on the population distributions of the US and Canada, but it does seem like a higher percentage of Canadians might live and/or drive in very dense areas compared to the US.

              I am curious if there is any data available to show that Canadians prefer high-spec small cars at a higher rate than Americans. That strikes me as something that could be anecdotal.

        4. Realization that it’s easier to drive/park in an urban environment?

          Whilst American parking spaces & roads feel much wider/open than any other country. I’m not sure of actual differences between Canada/USA .

          Canadian governments have also driven to increase density in those fewer urban areas – rather than create the wider sprawl found in many American suburbs (not to say they don’t exist, but that government mandates made it harder).

        5. The market dynamics of Canada vis-a-vis the USA are somewhat divergent, but mostly on the sedan side of the market. Proportionally, I suspect similar numbers of F-150s and CR-Vs are sold here as in the United States and that our markets are converging as vehicles become larger overall.

          In the past, the sedan market of Canada typically was one step down in size compared to the US market. Honda sells far more Civics than Accords here. Some of this was a legacy of a weaker economy/weaker buying power of the Canadian dollar.

          I suspect the effect is magnified by the higher fuel prices of the country. The price of fuel where I live ($1.62 CAD/L = $4.50 USD/US gal) probably influences purchases more strongly at the economy end of the market. For those who could afford larger vehicles, the fuel economy penalty is not as financially significant.

    2. It’s also a bit of a reversal from Honda’s strategy to date. They didn’t receive the CR-V Hybrid at the same time we did in the previous gen, and the current gen initially debuted with they hybrid only in the top Touring trim. They’ve since added an EX-L hybrid that seems comparable to the Sport-L here, but nothing lower like our Sport hybrid. Toyota is pretty 1:1 on hybrid/non trims in both markets.

      That said, Civics run more expensive vs. other small cars, so maybe it’s that if you’re spending on the Civic anyway, you’re moving higher up the range. Canadians do tend to be more likely to spend on a higher trim smaller car, but they also had base DX trim Civics on offer at least 3-4 years longer up there than they did here.

    3. Maybe Canadians shop for vehicles more reasonably. If A Civic meets your needs and can be equipped well enough that you don’t hate sitting in it, there’s no real reason for anything larger. there could also be some insurance nonsense steering those sales numbers.

      Americans just seem to shop for the best price per pound of vehicle.

  25. This is a good thing. The fake shift points and all that stuff is not necessary. Just like the fake engine sounds on other models. Like 100+ years ago automakers did not make cars that sounded like horses.

    1. It actually has the benefit of reducing engine drone. I’ve driven a CVT with fake shift points and one without them…and I absolutely preferred the one with the shifts. If you don’t have them and want to drive at a reasonable (for a CVT) rate of speed you’re going to be treated to 5,000 RPMs of naturally aspirated eco four cylinder for extended periods of time. Which is, uh…not great.

      1. The only time the fake shift points are going to affect the RPMs is if you’re accelerating, which doesn’t seem like an “extended period of time” to me. If your CVT is screaming at 5000 RPM cruising on the highway the fake shift point one is going to be doing the same thing.

        If anything, fake shift points force the engine to rev longer because it keeps drifting in and out of the power band just like a traditional auto instead of giving you peak power to get up to speed in the shortest time possible.

        1. “If anything, fake shift points force the engine to rev longer because it keeps drifting in and out of the power band just like a traditional auto instead of giving you peak power to get up to speed in the shortest time possible.”

          On a normal ICE-only, sure, but with this being a hybrid, the powerband is going to be a mix of electric motor low end grunt combined with the ICE middle powerband pull. It’ll likely “shift” into the meatiest portion of the powerband which theoretically would get you to speed quicker.

          1. That’s not how this works. The ICE still has the same power band regardless of whether it’s in a hybrid system or not. Yes, you can fill in gaps with the hybrid motors, but if you created those gaps yourself by “shifting” out of the peak ICE power band then you’re throwing away electric power (and efficiency) for nothing.

            It’s a stupid design that only exists because people are used to traditional automatics, not because it has any inherent virtue.

            1. I’ve driven a hybrid that simulates shifts (Escape PHEV) and you can definitely feel the power loss of a gear change; this is because it has to cut power like in a real gear shift to avoid the jerkiness of suddenly bringing engine RPM down. It also sits in the awkward spot of having enough sound deadening that a constant drone would have blended into the background, but the changing engine note when accelerating with constant gear ratios makes the engine noise noticeable.

    2. “Like 100+ years ago automakers did not make cars that sounded like horses.”

      Well that’s only because they didn’t have the audio tech to pull it off.

      But now that you said that, I think it would be hilarious to add that sound effect to a modern car.

      1. oh my god, you know when you hear something for the first time and you just have to have it. fake horse galloping sound effect is infinitely better than fake engine noise, I want it.

        brands can give options too, do you want Clydesdale or Mustang?

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