The history of General Motors is one filled with countless hits and misses. There are so many of them that we even have a series dedicated to documenting each one. Some of GM’s misses could have been hits had the manufacturer been willing to give these models a chance. One of them was a mid-1960s project at Pontiac to deliver an affordable sports car for the American enthusiast. The 1964 Pontiac Banshee was supposed to be a Ford Mustang and European import killer, but GM clipped its wings before it could even achieve greatness. Now, you can own the only 1964 Pontiac Banshee XP-833 hardtop, the experimental car for a future that could have been.
Some readers have voiced concerns that our recent Holy Grail nominations have ventured too far from the roots of this series. Keep in mind that our version of Holy Grail is loosely based on the joke of David Tracy continuously finding rare Jeeps with manual transmissions. So, we’ve never really followed the definition of “Holy Grail” in the traditional sense. This series is dedicated to highlighting the best, weirdest, rarest, or most bombastic versions of vehicles throughout history. They can be anything from an outrageously expensive piece of motorcycle art from Honda, or the coolest version of the once-common Mercury Tracer.
My goal is to provide you with a comprehensive retrospective of awesome vehicles that deserve your attention. The Holy Grail moniker may not be literal, but the vehicles are great.
This story takes us back to the early 1960s, when gas was cheap and Americans were becoming a bit obsessed with sports cars. Hot Rod magazine sets the stage by explaining what was going on back then. In 1960, Chrysler hinted at sports cars with the reveal of the Plymouth XNR concept. Two years later, Ford also toyed with a sports car concept with the mid-engine V4-powered Ford Mustang I. Automotive legend Carroll Shelby was also fitting Ford V8s into curvy roadsters from Britain, and those cars went on to stomp the competition. The Chevrolet Corvette enjoyed a cushy position as America’s sports car, but maybe it would have some challengers to the throne.
The country was running a sports car fever above 100.4 degrees and Pontiac wanted in on the action. What its engineers produced could have been an icon if it were allowed to shine.
The Two-Seat Sports Car Dream
One of the best sources for history on the 1964 Pontiac Banshee XP-833 appears to be Hot Rod magazine as journalist Steve Magnante got to speak to Bill Collins, the engineer working under the wing of John Z. DeLorean to turn the dream of a Pontiac sports car into a reality.
As the magazine writes, Collins arrived at Pontiac in 1958. DeLorean arrived at the marque only two years prior under chief engineer Pete Estes and general manager Semon “Bunkie” Knudsen. DeLorean’s job was to add spice to a brand some thought was becoming bland. It didn’t take long for the brand to revamp its image. 1959 was the debut year for Pontiac’s Wide-Track, a design trend that added 5 inches of width to the front track and 4.5 inches to the rear track of Pontiac’s cars. Pontiac’s cars suddenly looked low and oh so wide, plus, Wide-Track also helped with stability. Advertisements showed almost comically wide cars and the public ate it up.
By 1961, DeLorean landed into the position of Pontiac’s chief engineer. DeLorean and his team’s next hit came in 1963 when they cut through GM’s ban on auto racing and limitations on big engines in intermediate cars. They found a loophole that allowed intermediate cars to have large engines as an option, and they fit a LeMans with a 389 cubic inch V8, creating the Gran Turismo Omologato. This was the car that for many, made John DeLorean an automotive icon. Pontiac sold 32,405 LeMans GTOs in the 1964 model year.
Unfortunately, as Hemmings points out, Pontiac hit some home runs, but was still selling fewer than half of the cars Chevrolet was, and DeLorean felt the brand still had room to grow. In Hot Rod‘s recounting of the Banshee XP-833, Collins expressed an interest in designing a two-seat sports car. DeLorean reportedly told him that one day they’d get that chance.
As Hagerty writes, the XP was born from GM’s design department. DeLorean wanted the XP, but so did Oldsmobile chief engineer John Beltz. Both chief engineers hashed out the possible design of the XP, but Beltz ultimately gave up the chase, reportedly knowing that getting a non-Corvette sports car into production wasn’t going to be easy.
DeLorean went back to his engineers and they got to work coming up with a design brief. The Pontiac wouldn’t just be a sports car, but one that was cheaper than a Corvette, and therefore attainable by more people, including young people. And they would do it by raiding the GM parts bin, collecting about 70 percent of their sports car’s chassis from other GM vehicles.
In 1964, DeLorean and Collins presented the idea to GM president Ed Cole and chairman James Roche. Reportedly, DeLorean had a way to avoid getting told “no” by promising that he’d show off functional prototypes, cars that were supposedly already built, but actually weren’t. The XP reportedly impressed GM brass, but now DeLorean had to deliver on his word.
The Sports Car For All
Back with his team, DeLorean ordered two prototypes, the SP-5 and the SP-6. The former had a removable hardtop while the latter was a convertible. The SP-5 represented what would be the base model while the SP-6 was a hotter, more expensive example.
As DeLorean promised GM brass, these would not be non-functional models, but fully operational prototype cars. Two functional cars would be built, plus four non-functional mock-ups.
Collins explained to Hot Rod that the engineering team raided GM’s parts bin. These cars were supposed to be cheaper than a Corvette, after all. The engineers built a chassis containing a lot of A-body parts, including frame sections and the Salisbury-style 10-bolt live rear axle from the 1964 Pontiac Tempest. It’s noted that the chassis wasn’t mated to the vehicle’s body through the traditional body mounts. Instead, the engineers welded the chassis to the floors of the body. Apparently, had these vehicles reached production, they would have featured unitized construction.
Keeping the car shiny side up is a coil-spring double A-arm front suspension up front and a four-link suspension with a Watts linkage in the rear. It’s reported that while the engineering team took as many Tempest parts as they could, the suspension appeared to have been custom-made for the XP-833. As you’re probably guessing by now, the XP-833 wasn’t a sophisticated car. It even had pitman-arm steering without power assist and manual drum brakes at each corner. It’s estimated that 80 percent of the XP-833 comes from the GM parts bin.
The biggest bits of tech the XP-833 brought to the table were adjustable pedals, a double-hinged trunk lid, and a fiberglass body courtesy of Dow Cornin. Collins notes that the design was inspired by the Corvair Monza GT show car. The base model SP-5 was equipped with a 230 cubic inch straight-six good for 165 HP while the SP-6 convertible got a 326 cubic inch V8 good for 250 HP. Reportedly, the engineers envisioned the XP-833 having larger engines, including possibly a 389 V8 and a 421 V8.
It was wise for the engineering team to use a smaller V8 for the prototype car. This was a car that weighed 2,615 pounds and could have made 360 HP from a 389 Tri-Power V8. That’s almost 400 pounds lighter than an equivalent Corvette, which made 425 HP from a big block V8. Add in a dramatically lower base model price, $2,500 compared to $4,141 for a Corvette back then, and Pontiac would have been firing a shot across the Corvette’s bow.
In 1966 (some sources say 1965), Pontiac presented its case to GM brass once again. By now, DeLorean was the head of Pontiac, which gave him some extra pull. DeLorean pitched the XP-833 cars as Ford Mustang killers, not a rival to Chevy’s Corvette. Sadly, DeLorean’s clever marketing didn’t do much because even though the XP-833 was close to being production-ready, General Motors wanted nothing with it. The program was canned and the two functional XP-833 examples were destined for the crusher.
The Grail
Collins and Pontiac master mechanic Bill Killen saved the XP-833 duo from the scrapper by hiding them away in shipping containers. Years later, Killen would purchase SP-5 and Collins would take home SP-6. Before the cars went to their new home, Collins found some Banshee nameplates and slapped them onto the prototype cars, giving them a posthumous name other than XP-833. Both Banshees are essentially one-offs and cars you will never see anywhere else. These are cars that, if crashed, you wouldn’t find replacement parts for.
In 1988, the SP-6 changed hands from Collins to Chicago-based collector Joe Bortz. SP-5 has been passed around, leaving Killen’s possession and eventually ending up with Connecticut car dealer Lenny Napoli in 2006. Napoli, known for running Napoli Kia, paid $214,500 for the vehicle. Since then, Napoli has attempted to sell the car several times without getting any bites. The vehicle failed to sell for $750,000 in 2013 and again for the same price in 2020. It then failed to sell again in 2023 for an inflated price of $1,200,000.
This year, Napoli is back trying to sell the vehicle again. It was listed on Hemmings’ Make Offer platform where it has currently failed to gather an offer higher than $50,000. As of writing, Napoli still wants $1,200,000.
[Correction: An earlier version of this story said the Banshee was auctioned at Hemmings. It is instead listed on the site’s Make Offer platform, which may look like an auction, but is a type of classified listing that allows prospective buyers to cast offers and the seller to choose a buyer based on the offer price.]
As noted earlier, this XP-833 is the SP-5 base model car. It has a removable hardtop and comes powered by a 230 cubic inch straight-six good for 165 HP. That punches power to the rear end through a four-speed manual transmission. Napoli says the car has all of 1,498 miles on its odometer, and that is just from driving the car to shows.
This car is one of the few we’ve written about that meets even the traditional meaning of Holy Grail. It is the only Banshee hardtop in the world. So, if you want it, $1,200,000 or trade for another interesting vehicle is your price.
It’s noted that while the XP-833 didn’t go into production, parts of it did live on. The Opel GT borrowed some of the XP-833’s front-end work and two different model years of the Pontiac Firebird Trans Am also clinched some rear design elements. If you squint hard at a C3 Corvette, you might see some XP-833 in there, too. In Hot Rod‘s interview with Collins, it’s also noted that the Pontiac Solstice of the 2000s was built to more or less the same design brief as the Banshees were, making the Solstice a spiritual successor to the XP-833 project.
Of course, with a vehicle this expensive and this rare, it’s not going to be your daily driver. But it is a time capsule to what could have been. Had DeLorean succeeded in his mission, Pontiac could have launched a world-class sports car that, sure, may have challenged GM’s Corvette darling, but could have also allowed so many people enjoy a sports car without paying tons of money.
Do you know of or own a car, bus, motorcycle, or something else worthy of being called a ‘holy grail’? Send me an email at mercedes@theautopian.com or drop it down in the comments!
(Images: Lenny Napoli/Dragone Auctions)
I’ve always thought this was a beautiful car but the one piece of information I haven’t been able to find was who led the body design. Even the excellent Dean’s Garage article, which interviews one of the engineers on the project, doesn’t say.
I’m sure some of you have noticed, the engine is the Pontiac SOHC version, not the old Chevy Stovebolt. Jay Leno has an early Firebird Convertible with the Hipo SOHC 6. Stick shift. 4 barrel carb. He says it handled great! Check out his video on his Garage channel. I never miss an episode!!
Those were really strong engines back then.
And the first engine from a big 3 automaker to use a timing belt.
“Protect the Corvette” also kneecapped the Fiero leaving it saddled with the Iron Duke instead of a V6 or a more advanced 4.
Smart guy. I was curious to know if he went on to do anything noteworthy, and while he did apparently give us the Toronado, he died only a few years after being put in charge of Oldsmobile. :-/
So, we’re saying that the Opel GT and this design were completely coincidental. Right down to the hood blister on both cars? Uh huh, sure. I own a GT and there are way too many similarities in this design to be by accident.
The real question is how do the headlights retract?
ha, headlights were actually never installed in these two protos. I guess that retracting mechanism was not decided on yet, but if this was to be a parts bin car, then probably standard popups.
This should have been made but it’s more than a little obvious that it was killed to favor the Corvette especially when the next Corvette that came out looked almost exactly like this profile
The influence on the C3 Vette is obvious. I suppose probably the Opel GT as well.
All I see is a knock-off c3. No need to squint hard, or at all.
It’s the other way around though. This was presented in 1964 while the Mako Shark II Corvette concept was 1965. I argue this is what killed it, the design was great so they incorporated it into the Vette
I’m sure you’re right. I wasn’t sure about the timeline of the two cars.
A byproduct of the corporate culture of GM, no wonder every division was so secretive and unwilling to work together unless forced.
Gives some coincidental (maybe not a coincidence?) credibility to the Banshee name in GTA games
This is an annoying level of pedantry (and I could be wrong) but this is the second article I’ve seen on here that refers to the Pontiac GTO as the “Gran Turismo Omologato” – to the best of my knowledge, despite the GTO moniker being lifted from the Ferrari 250 GTO where “GTO” stood for those words, in the case of the Pontiac the name of the car is just “GTO”, not Gran Turismo Omologato.
Not “Gas, Tires, and Oil?” My grandpa will be so disappointed!
We love pedantry! However, General Motors did market the vehicle as the “Gran Turismo Omologato” in some of its advertising. So it would appear that GM lifted both the abbreviation and its meaning.
Here’s an advertisement from 1964:
https://images-stag.jazelc.com/uploads/theautopian-m2en/64gtop.jpg
And an advertisement from 1966:
https://images-stag.jazelc.com/uploads/theautopian-m2en/IMG_7195.jpg
Very interesting! I see they’re also using the European spelling of “litre” in that first ad, so they’re clearly trying to borrow more of a Euro-sporty identity than I assumed given what a quintessential American muscle car the GTO was
I don’t know that there’s much squinting to see a C3. Looks just like it–I’d say the concept absolutely lived on
“It’s estimated that 80 percent of the XP-833 comes from the GM parts bin”
…
“These are cars that, if crashed, you wouldn’t find replacement parts for.”
Well, you’d apparently be able to find 80% of the parts.
The fiberglass bodywork would be the real issue here for sure.
Would probably be easier to fix in fiberglass than steel.
Oh, you got me there! But from the sounds of things, good luck ever fixing that suspension or body.
Bought something slapped together in the 60’s for $200k and expect to sell it for $1.2 million in 2024? Are we talking about an obscure concept car or a 2-bedroom bungalow in a bubbly market?
I think the word you are searching for is: idiot.
Additional choices are: dumb ass, greedy bastard, delusional turd, car dealer, nut job.
Seems like $50K is the fair market value.
this is up for auction on Hemmings right now with a 1.2 million dollar opening bid
According to Opel GT books like Projekt 1484, the Banshee nor the 65 Mako Shark had no influence in what they were doing with their 1965 Experimental GT prototypes/show cars. There are a few interviews with GT designer Erhard Schnell out there that backs that up. Just coincidence and maybe some internal prodding by GM design chief Bill Mitchell with the front bulging fenders which ran on the Banshee, Mako Shark II and the Opel GT design studies.
I do wonder if Duntov and Chevrolet protested loudly enough to have this upstart Pontiac killed off. It really is a beautiful little two seater and I can imagine how threatened Duntov & Chevy had to feel after getting word of this car by DeLorean and company.
Oh, you don’t have to wonder. At all. The Eleventh Commandment is “thou shalt not market any two-seater that threatens the reign of the Corvette.”
Don’t mess with the
ZohanZora!yeah Pontiac had a lot of sporty or neat concepts killed off. The Banshee, 2nd Gen Fiero, and the G8 Ute.
Yeah, but at least we got the Pontiac G3.
I understand why they killed the 2nd generation Fiero, I don’t like the reasons, but I understand them. The G8ST was greenlit and would have happened if not for the bankruptcy and subsequent nationalization of GM, or would have still happened had the bankruptcy occurred maybe 12 months later (it was inevitable, they were going to file for it sooner or later, great recession or no great recession). The Solstice coupe managed to just barely, technically squeak through into the market during the same timeframe, killed quick with the rest of Pontiac, but at least a few made it to customers
There are a great many folks with inside knowledge of the great GM bankruptcy.
Some hard core right winger types even propose that it was all something orchestrated by the Obama administration. Which is a deep rabbit hole to even consider.
As to if GM was “over extended” during this time, they probably were. Like 90% of the rest of corporate America, and a good majority of the US population.
I would be interested in why you feel that GM was destined to file though, recession or not.
Because GM had $172.8 billion in debt against against $82 billion in assets, and had not turned a profit since 2004, posting a loss of $38.7 billion in the last pre-recession year of 2007. They had been functionally bankrupt for awhile before they made it official by filing.
Not to start anything here. But. There were, and still are a shit ton of companies that had/still have books that mirrored the GM situation.
And they survived without a sweet bankruptcy.
The GM situation smelled from the start. Large corporate financial bullshit happens everyday as SOP. Books are cooked, and the consumer pays the bill. The accounting firms in corporate USA were also dealing with their own backlash for cooking corporate books in 2007/2008.
Large corporations have a license to steal. Granted by the Gov. and society.
If you don’t believe this, ask why the single family tax burden is so high. Especially vs corporations…Food for thought.
“A man with a briefcase can steal more than one with a gun.” Bob Dylan.
An example of this is how much shareholder money was wiped out when they filed, with no repercussions at all.
That sucks, then and now.
BTW thanks for your reply and the figures put forth.
GM’s credit rating kept getting dropped, it was already getting more difficult and more expensive for them to borrow, and they were borrowing to cover interest, not for working capital or to retire principal. Their future outlook was poor, they had no turnaround plan that was going to work unless they drastically restructured debt, rewrote contracts to close surplus facilities cheaper and faster, and got a magic infusion of effectively free money. GM wasn’t viable in 2008 or 2009, there were other ways they could have possibly been saved without a nationalization, but they had higher risk of failure. A traditional bankruptcy was feared because of how reliant on cash flow GM was to cover current expenses- if customers refused to buy cars from an automaker in Ch11, or bought them only with enormous discounts, that revenue was gone and CH11 would become Ch7. We only know what actually happened, any alternatives are speculation, what happened happened, we don’t know what could have happened. Maybe a regular bankruptcy could have worked, maybe not
Looks *a little* like a C3??? The coke bottle profile is the same down to the inch and the entire hood isn’t far off.
Exactly… no squinting required.
IMO, looks better than the C3.
Ya, I’m having an existential crisis right now because I kind of agree… but the C3 is the most wonderful design in history. Everything is topsy turvey
It is superb, indeed
Can’t help but see some visual similarities to the early Opel GT-not sure if it’s just the zeitgheist or being a GM product but do we know if there is any relation? Too bad this didn’t make it to production even with the Sprint 6 (another odd Pontiact one off that almost could get it’s own column) it would’ve been a great car. I do think the sail panels are perhaps a tad overlarge but this wasn’t 100% production ready I assume?
Classic GM move. I love seeing this thing pop up every so often as a discussion point.. I feel like these would have sold well, not amazing, but well enough to make them cult cars for being a ‘mini-vette’.
How much of this went into the original “mini vette” the Opel GT
There’s another Banshee too, and it’s almost criminal it was never made, although you see some hints to its design cues in later-gen 80’s Trans Ams:
https://static1.hotcarsimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Banshee2.JPG
And it heavily influenced the (godawful) Knight Rider 2000 movie car (also godawful):
https://ls1tech.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/kitt-4000.jpg
I’m not old enough for the original Banshee, so the one you mention is what I thought of immediately as well.
The only Knight Rider 2000 KITT I recognize is that ’57 Chevy.
Similarly, Aliens 3 didn’t happen.
My dad was in charge of the Pontiac booth at the Philadelphia auto show. As a college student, I helped him set up the show and wiped the cars down every morning. He let me drive the Banshee up on to the platform. Sweaty palms – I had 50 teamsters watching me.
Parallel-parking-with-an-audience anxiety x 50
No, Team Knight Rider was godawful. Knight Rider 2000 was….eh.
TKR was damn near unmentionable. As was the last attempt at reviving the concept, especially the stupid “Mustang transforms into a van” thing.
I thought KR2000 was godawful because… I mean, why did we watch KR? To see a futuristic car doing cool things in a not-too-serious vibe.
Then they spend most of the movie with KITT being the radio of a ’57 Chevy. And when he finally does get transferred into a “good” car, it turns out to be a Dodge Stealth with a body kit even the 17 year old down the street wouldn’t touch.
Really, though, everyone involved in making these things seems to have forgotten why the original did well. From KR2000 on, they’ve been trying to make it an epic action show with dark undertones. They’re fighting psychotic mass murderers, assassins, terrorists, etc.
In the original, Michael went up against… A rich asshole trying to take someone’s land away from them. A rich asshole trying to run a race track off its land by engineering accidents. A counterfeiter.
Yeah, there were assassination attempts he broke up, but that wasn’t every episode. In other words, the original series understood that the premise of the show was so ridiculous that they couldn’t take it too seriously if they wanted to keep people from rolling their eyes and changing channels. A sentient, bulletproof car that could go 300mph and jump buildings would be ludicrous with today’s technology, much less the 80s.
Because they acknowledged that, they got that the show had to be goofball fun, not Cardinal of the Kremlin. Once they lost sight of that, they lost the ability to make a watchable show.
It burns me that Pontiac could have sold an American 240Z five years before Datsun. There would have been engine options ranging from Delorean’s pet engine, the Jaguar-inspired 215hp Sprint OHC straight six, potentially all the way to a motherscratchin’ 421 Super Duty, and who knows what in between. But as I always say, the General gonna General. No, Pontiac, you may not make a two-seater that can hang with the almighty Corvette at three-fifths the price.
But even if the Sprint 6 was the top engine option, it still would have been one hell of a red-blooded American sports car, and probably would have drawn a different buyer than the Corvette anyway.
It seems that most of Pontiac’s history is one of dealing with GM being bitches. It’s a wonder half the cool shit they made got to market, and much of it that did was the result of “well, no one says we CAN’T.” No wonder it’s my favorite American make.
Pontiac. We build excrement
My Vibe takes offense, even if it’s basically a Corolla hatch.
Agreed 100%.
My heart broke when GM killed Pontiac off.
Olds or Buick or GMC would have been better choices.
Even today, it seems like a huge mistake was made.
I can understand hanging on to Buick at the time the decision was made, because of its inexplicable popularity in China. I can even understand killing off Oldsmobile from a purely practical standpoint, although like Pontiac, I think GM had been slowly poisoning the division to death for decades.
But GMC? As a freestanding passenger car division? Why? What in the hell do they make that you cannot already buy the equal of from Chevrolet or Cadillac? Seriously, why does it even exist as a maker of anything but commercial vehicles? And who can tell me what GMC makes that Pontiac or Oldsmobile didn’t or couldn’t, that is not already available from a different division with a different badge on the front?
Now, this would have been a car worth selling cocaine to raise capital for its realization.
The key would’ve been to stick with the cammer 6. By mentioning “v8” they spooked it.
Think of how good that 6 could’ve been if developed.
It was already pretty nice in Sprint form – 215 horsepower, 240 ft/lbs torque. That’s a barrel of laughs in a 2600-pound car. Delorean made it after studying the Jaguar 6.
GM would’ve found that engine very useful in 1974.
Can you imagine this thing later in the decade with Pontiac’s stillborn 303 V8 under the hood? They messed around with building a high-winding small block for SCCA Trans Am competition, basically a one-up to the Z28 302. Nothing ever came of it, but such an engine in this car would have been a revelation.
all those people freaking now with the Hurricane 6 coming to Dodge projects today show we haven’t really gotten over our unnational obsession with pistons vs output. … I don’t agree, and David’s article from last week shows that many buyers haven’t either. I think the Sprint 6 would have been the way to get started. Should have left the V8 off the table for the first pitch. Bell housing patterns were pretty standard at GM those days and with a car with a hood that long, it would have been a given that later on, they could have dropped a small block in there. Start with the high tech cammer 6, focus on the rest of the package. John was an engineer, I would have gone with a high tech, light and affordable package. Lightweight ohv 6, disc brakes, maybe even do like the tempest and do a rear transmission and stick the battery in the back to ensure 50/50 weight distribution. That way you can make the case to the board that you are going for a different market then the Corvette. Make this a Cheap, Light and affordable Sports car for people going for something different then what the Vette was back then.
I just mentioned this in what concept car would you like to see in production, It was tie between this and the four seat corvette (I am weird).
<erased a bunch of typed out onomatopoeic grumbling>
What the hell, GM. I can’t make heads of tails of their strategy. It just seems to be bumble along until someone else well and truly spanks you with an idea you first had 20 years ago, and accidentally get a few things right along the way. It’s a wonder the Corvette even exists.
Don’t forget the following GM classic:
Be first on the scene with an innovative new product.
Product has teething problems.
Devote a lot of resources to fixing said problems.
Cancel the program
Competitor comes out with a fully realized version of product and gains a multiyear lead
You forgot the fifth step. Fire or reassign all personnel, destroy the prototypes, and shred the designs.
Most of GM’s coolest shit came from sneaky design departments out in the divisions saying, “Well, nothing says we can’t.” One that Pontiac did get away with was the last great new engine of the muscle car era, the 455 Super Duty. Right in the teeth of unleaded fuel, catalytic converters, lowered compression ratios, and the insurance wars, Pontiac releases a damn near full-race fire-breathing big block that partied like it was 1969. Pontiac released the nastiest engine they ever made in, of all years, 1973. GM was not amused.