Welcome back to Shitbox Showdown! After yesterday’s major projects, I thought we’d take it a little easier today and check out a couple of potential bargains, one of which needs what is almost certainly a simple fix, and the other basically just needs some elbow grease.
I’m not alone in my admiration of a clean shiny old J-car, it seems. Either that, or the animosity towards Chrysler’s worst engine is greater than I thought. The little red Sunbird cleaned house, and it would be my choice as well. Several of you brought up a potential engine swap idea for it that I had completely forgotten about: the 2.8-3.1 liter 60-degree V6, which was available in both the Cavalier and Sunbird in later years. Cheap, plentiful, and an easy forty horsepower bump – makes sense to me.
(And for the record, although it seems that only one of you agreed with me: Waterworld is a lot of fun. It’s silly, sure, but the right kind of silly. And Dennis Hopper, between Waterworld and Speed, is one of the best villains of the 1990s. I would throw Flashback in there as well, but Huey Walker is more of an antihero than a true villain. But I digress.)
The idea of getting elbow-deep in the inner workings of an old convertible isn’t for everyone, I admit. But if you’re willing to wrench just a little, or give a car a good scrubbing, you can find some decent bargains out there. Neither of these will set your soul on fire, it’s true, but they will get your ass to work, and sometimes that’s all you need.
2004 Mitsubishi Outlander – $1,500
Engine/drivetrain: 2.4 liter overhead cam inline 4, four-speed automatic, FWD
Location: Milpitas, CA
Odometer reading: 284,000 miles
Operational status: Runs and drives, but has misfire
It’s hard to know when to give up on a car. Sometimes the decision is made for you, as was the case with my wife’s old Explorer; when the transmission started slipping for the second time, and the OBDII codes were multiplying like a virus in a petri dish, it was time for a new car. Or, if the timing chain suddenly decides it wants to see daylight, it’s a good time to unload. But more often, it’s just a feeling; you get to a point where you just don’t want to fix the next thing, no matter how minor it might be. You’re done.
From the sounds of it, that’s where the owners of this Mitsubishi Outlander are. After racking up nearly 300,000 miles, it still runs and drives, but it has thrown a check engine light. They have elected not to sink any more money into it, and are letting it go cheap, apparently right after having new tires installed.
But through the magic of OBDII, and armed with a little bit of experience, I can wield Occam’s Razor well enough to diagnose this car’s woes from here, sitting on my sofa, hundreds of miles away. Code P0303 is a misfire on cylinder number 3, which can have many causes, some of which require serious repairs. However, the seller also states that the car recently passed a smog test, and that the problem happened suddenly. This means it’s unlikely to be a burned valve, because that gets worse over time, and likely would have caused it to fail the smog test. It’s limited to one cylinder, and isn’t accompanied by a rattling noise, which likely rules out any timing problems related to a loose timing chain.
No, I’d bet a dollar that the problem here is a bad ignition coil pack on the number 3 cylinder. Modern engines don’t have a distributor or spark plug wires anymore; each cylinder has its own ignition coil sitting right on top of the spark plug. They don’t often go bad, but when they do, they cause the exact symptoms described by the seller: shaky idle and a “Check Engine” light. It’s probably down on power and getting crappy fuel mileage, too.
The ignition coil is a $40 part, it looks like, and should take about ten minutes to replace. Actually, take an hour, and replace all four spark plugs, too. I have a feeling it will purr like a kitten again after that.
2006 Dodge Grand Caravan – $1,800
Engine/drievtrain: 3.3 liter overhead valve V6, four-speed automatic, FWD
Location: Austin, TX
Odometer reading: 160,000 miles
Operational status: Runs and drives fine
Here we have, once again, our old friend the Dodge Caravan. Chrysler sold so many of these things for so many years that they have become a fixture on the used car market, and are likely to remain so for many years to come, even though the Caravan is out of production. I pass over many ads for them every day, but this one for some reason jumped out at me, so here it is.
This is the C/V model, typically favored by tradespeople rather than families. It’s really basic inside, with rubber floors, crank windows, and simple cloth upholstery. Usually the C/V models don’t have seats in the back, but apparently they were an option, and this van has them. They are not, however, of the “Stow ‘n Go” variety; they’re more like “heave it out ‘n try not to drop it on your foot.”
This was a work van, though; you can see ghosts of graphics on it that look like they used to say “Collision On Wheels.” I assume they mean “Collision Repair On Wheels,” but whatever. It bears the scars of a life of work, but didn’t rack up too many miles doing it; 160,000 miles is low for an eighteen-year-old work van. It’s in good shape mechanically, it sounds like, with a new battery, starter, and alternator. Not only that, but it has air conditioning, and it works! The only thing wrong with it, according to the seller, is that the speedometer works “when it wants to.” No biggie; download a GPS speedometer app, and you’re good to go.
Mostly, what I think this van needs is a good deep cleaning. It’s pretty grubby inside, and the windows are filthy. Common wisdom is to at least wash and vacuum a car before putting it up for sale, but that rule sometimes falls apart at the low end of the market. But the price is actually pretty low for a good-running Caravan with lowish miles, so a little sweat equity seems worth it. (And they say grime doesn’t pay…)
You can’t expect miracles in this price range. We know that. But there are still deals to be found, if you’re willing to do just a little work. One of these needs a quick fix, and the other wants a detailing, but for less than two grand each, they both feel like good deals to me. Which one feels like it to you?
(Image credits: Craigslist sellers)
I’d rather replace a coil pack than clean the filth out of someone else’s miniworkvan.
There was a time when a van would have made sense for me, but the kids are grown now and geographically, if not economically (don’t get me started) independent. Therefore, anything > van for me, and the clean and likely-easily-repairable Outlander gets my vote.
It’s a work van, vacuum out the front and load up the tools
The Mitsubishi isn’t a terrible deal and it’s not an awful vehicle if you or someone you know might keep it for a while. Pretty high mileage, though. The Caravan is ready for duty and gets my vote.
I still see quite a few of the old Mitsubishi SUVs on the roads still. Considering how small of a market they held when new, it’s actually an achievement.
The Caravans, which used to be ubiquitous, don’t seem to have that same longevity. Adding the transmission/engine/body/electrical issues that people I knew that owned one, it’s not on my list unless it’s for a short time where I need little more than a box on wheels.
A forgettable CUV with a coil pack issue is far lower on the list of vehicles to get interested in than a grubby-but-honest minivan, so Caravan it is. And since my boys are at the age where they basically trash the interior every time they get in one of our cars, I’m not even sure I’d bother cleaning the Caravan (kidding – sort of).
So between 2 1/2 and 24 years old?
Nailed it.
I think there’s more upside to the Outlander. Especially if you do some negotiating on the sale. The market for crank window rubber mat mini vans is not great. People like us weirdos who read this site like them, but let’s be honest. We’re all tighter than two coats of paint, aren’t we folks?
*spies nickel on front passenger seat of the 2006 Grand Caravan*
So, it looks like this is actually $1,799.95…
/votes for Outlander anyway
I would absolutely snap up that Caravan, but then my wife would use it as my hearse…so I’ll let it pass.
Rough, gravelly voice: Greetings, outlander
That 3.3 engine from the van is reliable. This could be a fun weekend project to clean it out, take the seats out and use it for home depot errands
A hell of a lot cheaper than a used pick up in similar condition and able to do 99% of the things most suburbanites would do with a truck.
I think this is The Way, plus an extreme-close-up video of the cleanup work would go viral in the ASMR universe. We’ll take the Caravan.
I mean, if I’m gonna drive something that’ll probably end up a junker rather quickly, I at least want it to be something I’m familiar with. A faulty speedo doesn’t scare me either.
Definitely going with the van here.
These do look like the Stow ‘n’ Go seats in the Dodge. IIRC all extendeds with rear seats got a stowable 3rd row, any 2nd row buckets on an extended were stowable too – standard on most vans but optional on the Grand SE in place of a heave-out bench. I’m surprised then a cargo van with seats didn’t have a middle bench. Or that you could get a C/V with seats, since that’s basically…an SE.
I kind of like these Outlanders (and the next gen) in a weird way. I get the impression their mechanic quoted them a lot more for the repair in question and that’s why they don’t want to sink more money into it after just putting in routine maintenance (tires).
Outlander. I actually like this iteration’s look (the current one leaves me cold), though I’d have to pop for a replacement front logo badge…she looks naked without it.
I just finished replacing a bad ignition coil/spark plug combo on my Focus, and yeah, super easy, though randomly NOT a 10mm socket job for some weird reason (everything else up top on the engine seems to be). What’s more difficult is that it’s second time this particular cylinder’s coil went bad…I replaced it just last year. Sigh.
8mm?
7mm if you can believe it – such a weird size (the main bolt that secures the coil to the head)!
Super weird!
Not a fan of Chrysler minivans, as the transmission is a time bomb. Maybe if it had the 4-cylinder, it might be worth considering.
So I voted for the Outlander.
Why would you take it with the 4 cylinder? It’ll still have the same transmission as the V6’s.
Genuinely curious about the reason.
perhaps the lesser power might not kill it as quickly, and transverse V6 minivans suck to work on too 🙁
Wee need more 4-cylinder minivans.
I fully understand the workability aspect of it. The space the 2.4 has in that engine bay must make working on it a breeze!
I haven’t really heard any issues with the 4 speeds as of late anymore. Generally, I think it’s the valve body that gets a little iffy, but that’s much more of a 62TE issue any more.
Good reason though!
Toyota offered a 4-cylinder on the Sienna in 2011-2012, the first two years of the third gen. Of course now, the new one is a 4-cylinder (hybrid), but they’re new and expensive 🙁
The Transit Connect is awesome, too.
Too bad Chrysler got super jealous that the Promaster City would steal sales from the shitty Pacifica. That’s why you couldn’t get one with three rows of seats or even three rows of windows.
Have you ever seen the inside of a Promaster City? Those things are TINY. A decent second row would’ve left like 4 feet worth of space behind it.
Plus, if you think that 4 speed is problematic, get ready for the City’s 9 speed.
Now I wanna see a Sienna with the 2.7. Just looked it up and saw exactly what you were talking about.
I’m intrigued.
Oh yeah, Chryslers suck regardless, and the ZF9 also sucks no matter what it’s installed in. But if I had to buy a Chrysler minivan, I’d rather have a City than a Pacifica, which also uses that same ZF9 shit. I just hate gouging shit like that, where they cripple a cheaper model in order to protect a more-expensive one.
I didn’t know that City was that small. I thought it was the same size as the Transit Connect, which does offer a third row.
Sienna 2.7:
http://www.jbcarpages.com/pictures/toyota/sienna/2012/760/2012_toyota_sienna_picture%20(5).jpg
Fiat Doblo passenger version with 3 rows of windows:
https://www.automobiledimension.com/photos/interior/fiat-doblo-maxi-2015-boot.jpg
The Promaster City is virtually the same size as the Transit Connect.
Just looked up a picture from Ford’s website about the 3rd row Transit Connects, and I didn’t think it could have one.
Color me surprised. I wouldn’t personally call a 3 row Transit Connect practical though. Different strokes for different folks, as the saying goes.
I wanted to go with the Mitsubishi, mostly because I can’t bring myself to like that generation of Chrysler/Dodge/Plymouth minivans, no matter how hard I try. But something makes me think there’s more wrong with that Mitsubishi if they’re selling it so soon after putting on new tires. With almost 300k on the clock the owners have likely had to deal with many minor repairs before, which makes me suspect it’s more than just a coil pack. Or maybe they just got tired of the thing, and decided to sell rather than deal with more repairs. Either way, a begrudging vote for the Dodge it is.
That Caravan is gross, but it’s going to be a hammer in the long run just doing what it does.
With nearly half the miles (allegedly) that’s the more reliable choice here.
That Mitsu has something sinister wrong with it if they’re going to walk after putting new tires on.
Cleaning is easy.
If the speedometer only works intermittently doesn’t that mean the odometer is also not to be trusted?
Yes
Not necessarily. The odometer is digital. I’ve seen a few cars with a broken or stuck mechanical speedo and a digital odometer that still counts up just fine.
Wow, and I thought yesterday was the battle of cars no one could possibly want, yet somehow today’s are even worse.
Anyone that has done home projects with a minivan has developed affection for them. Lumber, sheetrock, fencing, tools; It all slides in the back, away from weather and thieves.
As a long-time minivan owner, I’d agree with that sentiment…just not for this particular van. These vans were not particularly nice, and the work version even less – especially since it lacks Stow-N-Go, which was the saving grace for these. I’d much rather have a contemporary Odyssey or Sienna.
For these crapboxes, I’d go into it with Mr Gossin’s attitude. Fix it, flip it.
Cleaning out the Dodge, polishing the old logos off the paint, pulling that bumper dent out, etc etc sounds like too much work for me.
I’ll go with the Mitsu
It’s the Battle of the Boring Beaters. Neither of these even warrants an exclamation point.
I voted van because if we’re going boring, let’s go all in and get the white one.
That coilpack might not be a coilpack, and then you’re looking at something more than a $40 fix. I’ll take the runner that’s NOT throwing codes for the extra $300 rather than try to troubleshoot the SEP.
I was thinking that if they just paid for new tires they aren’t walking away over a coil pack. They know what’s really wrong and it costs more than new tires. They kept a Mitsubishi (!) running for 300K miles, they’re not afraid of commonplace repairs.
Nope!
This is the way.
Swap the coilpack with an adjacent cylinder, reset the code, drive around a bit, and see if the misfire follows the coilpack or sticks with the cylinder. My Taco went through this twice in the 300K+ miles I had it. Both times it was never as simple as the coilpack or plugs and was always an exhaust valve getting caked up with carbon and starting to stick.
I have had coil packs go bad in my Acura TSX, and troubleshooting them the way you describe is the way to go. In my case it was the coil packs in the end, but I would rather know instead of just firing the parts cannon at the issue.