It’s ironic that little more than a week after it was announced Apple was abandoning work on their long-rumored car, CEO of Rivian RJ Scaringe used Steve Jobs’ “one more thing” line at the R2 launch event to surprise reveal the existence of another new Rivian, the R3. During the event at Laguna Beach on Thursday evening, Scaringe said the seminal phrase three times in the presence of assorted journalists and influencers – safe to assume he knew exactly what he was doing. None of this Silicon Valley synchronicity set social media ablaze though. Nope, instead the social media hype machine has been cranked up to 11 over the existence of the R3X, a ruggedized R3 with a lifestyle off-road vibe.
[Editor’s Note: This initial version of this story did not meet our editorial standards. Specifically, it did not align with our mission here at The Autopian, which is:
The Autopian exists to serve the car enthusiast community by creating content that informs and entertains, while celebrating the unifying quality of automobiles.
The initial version of this piece was too critical of people whose opinions do not agree with the author’s. Here at The Autopian, we do not ever want to imply that we are somehow smarter than our readership (because that’s simply untrue; many of us here are dipishits) and we do not ridicule people for having differing opinions. While the intention of the article’s tone was to humorously portray an arrogant car designer, there are lines that are not meant to be crossed, whether in character or out. As such, we’ve made significant revisions to this piece, and will make sure that such an oversight does not happen again. Full explanation here. -DT].
[Original Editor’s Note: This take is, as you can likely sense by now, extremely hot (and a bit exaggerated for fun, so don’t take it too seriously!). And while I know Adrian genuinely believes everything he’s saying here – and, I think, backs up his points well – I also know the man loves to lose himself in a good rant, and he’s very likely to say some things that could offend some people. He is, as he never tires of reminding us, a designer, and as such knows more than we do. But that doesn’t mean you can’t think what you think, because, as they say, we’re not here to yuck anyone’s yum. There’s drama here, and lots you do not need to take seriously. I think it’s fun.
So, if you think the R3X felt like a Lancia Delta or a Rabbit or an Omni or a Niva or a Panda 4×4 (like I did), you’re not alone, and if Adrian doesn’t agree, well, too bad, Adrian. You – with whatever car opinions you have – are always welcome here no matter what, and you don’t even have to listen to Adrian if you don’t want to. – JT]
Cue everyone on the internet suddenly becoming a car design expert, and my eyes are rotating slowly into the back of my head. Le sigh. Do we really have to keep doing this?
If you’re here for a hot take with no critical thought behind it, turn away now.
Over the last few days, I have seen some truly impressive commentary turds bobbing by in the sewer of online discourse. I’m climbing back on my high horse and let me tell you up here the air is pretty sweet. “Oh God Adrian, you’re not going to be ranting about the pernicious influence of the eighties on modern culture again are you? We’ve heard all that before.” You’re goddamn right I am, but this time it’s going to be a slightly different rant, I promise.
Before we get started: I’m not going to pile on Rivian’s design. From what I’ve seen of the existing cars online, I like them a lot. I’ve looked at the media images and watched so many videos my YouTube algorithm is poisoned to the extent that every non-skippable advert I see until I die is going to be for an EV. Examination in the metal has thus far not been possible, because the R1S and R1T are not available in the UK, although I have seen an R1S on the road (probably bought over by JLR for evaluation purposes) and the smaller R2 and R3 apparently will be available in Europe in the future if the company survives that long.
The overall look of Rivian lineup strikes me as warmer, more approachable, and humanistic in the vein of an Apple product, rather than the decontented anonymity of a Tesla. Although I would prefer to see some hard controls to balance out the reliance on a touchscreen, the haptic wheels on the steering wheel are an interesting step in the right direction. Both Rivian and Tesla are striving for economic reasons to speed up manufacturing and reduce part count, but this has real-world consequences in terms of ease of repairability and total cost of ownership. Nonetheless, I do think Rivian has done a pretty good job of developing strong, consistent branding and has implemented it well across the consumer touchpoints. It’s surprising how small details like the use of yellow as a highlight color and having lots of warm hazy photographs on their website makes such a difference in perception.
It’s Just A Hatchback
What’s really queered my pickle is the number of people I’ve seen losing their shit over the R3 for the groundbreaking design decision to make it … a hatchback? You mean that revolutionary category of car that’s been around since the 1961 Renault 4 [Editor’s Note: I think we can go back even further, to the 1938 Citroën Traction Avant 11CV Commerciale:
Sorry to derail, I just wanted to get this in there! Back to Adrian’s rant. – JT]
… and was popularized as mainland Europe’s favorite small car category in 1971 by the Fiat 127? Okay, I know it took a lot longer for hatches to catch on in the US (and somewhat in the UK) because they were seen as economy cars for the tight of wallet, but come on people – hatchbacks have been around for a long while now.
More than this though, is the galactically silly commentary I’ve seen comparing the R3X to a Volkswagen Golf. One YouTube channel was going on about the amount of Giugiaro influence in the R3X. Their focus was the superficial likeness in the C pillar, and yes both cars have one but that’s about where the similarities end. The bodyside-to-glass ratio is different. The proportions are different. The stance is different. The surfacing is different. Every single thing about the two cars, apart from the fact they’re both hatchbacks, is different. Comparing the two is an insult to Rivian chief designer Jeff Hammound, in my view.
The actual interesting thing about the R3X’s C-pillar is the feature line that turns forward around the corner of the side glazing and runs down the bodyside to provide the shoulder line and the shut line for the clamshell hood. I couldn’t put my finger on exactly where I’d seen this feature before, but then it dawned on me: the Honda e does something very similar. But I think the idea originated with the 1965 Renault 16 (above) although the execution there is not as prominent and the Renault has a normal hood.
The Uselessness Of Facile Comparisons
Another comment our friend with the YouTube channel made was Rivian are leaning into a “product design” look.
Please choose from the two contemporary design styles for your wifi hardware: “rounded soft box with white light” and “satanic death cult blood sacrifice altar” pic.twitter.com/LYvNRkheOo
— Sebastiaan de With (@sdw) January 31, 2024
When analyzing the design of something, this statement isn’t really meaningful. Everything you can buy is a product. This article I’m hate-typing right now is a product, and like it or not you are my customers. Now, I understand what they are getting at. Saying something has a “product design” look has become shorthand for something “minimal,” with consistent use of constant radii, geometric primitive forms, a lack of frivolous decoration, muted colorways, and uses of san-serif fonts when labels are needed. In other words, “a tosser with a black turtleneck who probably drives a Polestar had a lot of influence on how this particular item of consumer hardware turned out.” But it’s such a reductive and not very useful way of talking about design.
On the desk in front of me are two laptops – a milled aluminum block of Cupertino’s finest, and a black Dell G7 that wouldn’t look out of place on the flight deck of a Klingon Bird of Prey. As products, their function of being a laptop is superficially similar but the divergence in their aesthetics reflects differing design priorities, capabilities, and brand identities.
I’ve also seen the R3X compared to both a Lada Niva (even my boss David did this) and a Lancia Delta, two cars with wildly different design briefs. The Niva was a car specifically designed for a hard rural life. They were miserable grinding Soviet shit boxes at the time of launch and manage the impressive feat of making an L316 Defender feel like a fucking Bentley. I guarantee you if any automotive influencer actually drove a Niva they would be horrified by the thing. [Editor’s Note: Um, I was horrified, I guess, but I also really liked it? Maybe Adrian doesn’t think I’m an influencer? – JT]
When people about the Delta what they really mean is the Radwood-stinky Lancia Delta Integrale – the homologation special that was mopping up world rally championships in the early nineties. Not the crisp Italian modernism of the Giugiaro original. None of these cars are in any way remotely on the same planet as the R3X in terms of ideas, function, execution, or design. The R3X is a modern, handsome well proportioned large-ish hatchback that has a subtle off-road stance, is powered by electricity and suffused with a large shot of California tinged Instagram energy. It isn’t a rally weapon, a spartan shopper for German hausfraus, or a hardy mountain goat.
A Good Product Will Create Its Own Buzz
Why does it have to be like this? Why can people only make facile comparisons to existing cars? Part of it is giving the veneer of saying something of substance, without any of that hard-thinking stuff. But mainly it’s because cultural discourse now only exists within a post-modern framework. People are unable to comment outside of anything that isn’t instantly recognizable because they and their audiences simply don’t have any reference points outside of what the algorithm fed them in the last five minutes. We’re stuck in a godforsaken nostalgia loop, a post-modern ouroboros where nothing can exist on its own merits. Everything has to specifically reference something from the past, and this does the intelligent discussion of design a great disservice.
A counterargument to this would be that creating a buzz is important to generate consumer interest and generate sales – it’s a free media buy for hard-pressed (ha!) corporations desperate to get their products in front of potential customers. The human eyeball floating in the punchbowl in this instance is the fact the Rivian R2 is not going to be available until 2026, and the R3 will not arrive until after that. There was very little interaction with either of the R3 models, and attendees were not allowed to touch any of the cars at all, suggesting these were extremely fragile models with some limited driving functionality (as captured on video by people outside the event), rather than pre-production vehicles. If Rivian are trying to cultivate a Tesla-like following, that’s a fraught undertaking; trying to maintain interest online for two years might as well be two centuries in the real world.
The looming danger all this poses is that anything newly created that doesn’t exist in this retro-futurist zeitgeist will be instantly dismissed as having no desirability, whatever its merits as a product. I came across the video below by someone who refers to themself as the “Internet’s Creative Director.” He starts his argument from the premise that the Rivian R3 is a retro-inspired design, which as I hope I’ve illustrated, it very much is not. The argument continues as he dismisses the Suzuki Jimny for not being designed for the social media age, overlooking the fact that years after its release Suzuki still cannot build the damn things fast enough. But the statement that frustrated me was the assertion that “the current generation of Range Rover, does not objectively to anyone look better than this 2010’s more geometric version … if they were continuing to play into the more nostalgic playbook they would have a better aesthetic for their vehicle that I feel would be more resonant.”
The car-buying public, in the same way they always have, desires what’s new and original. An advance on what they had previously. They don’t want a new car that looks like an old one, because how would other people know it’s a new car? Despite all their insurance and reliability problems, Land Rover is selling every new L460 Range Rover and L663 Defender they can build, at a very tidy profit. And there will never, ever be anything retro or nostalgic coming out of Gaydon as long as Gerry McGovern is in charge. And all the available evidence tells me the same is true for Jeff Hammoud at Rivian.
- People Are Seeing Rivian R3s In Real Life And They’re Freaking Out
- How I’d Make A Camper Out Of The Rivian Van Now That It’s No Longer An Amazon Exclusive
- Rivian Bricks Infotainment Systems Thanks To Fat Finger Mistake
- You Can Now Buy A Rivian Van Just Like The One Amazon Uses. Here’s How Much It Costs
What struck me about the Rivian reveal reaction was just how many different cars the R3 and R3X were compared to which is also like saying it’s not like any one of them.
Then I started seeing a bunch of decidedly non-car focused folks I know out in the internet socials I am part of express approval and desire for it. It would be unusual for them to comment on a vehicle at all and this Rivian reveal had buzz.
I think the Rivian lineup looks pretty good, but I will say those headlights behind me at night are bright and annoying on the existing models. Their design language isn’t overdone, busy or trying to show aggression like so many other brands seem to want to do.
I’m just happy that someone made something that doesn’t look like everything else on the road. Now, if they would just make something with a drop top, we would have something. And, one more thing. Adrian, keep up the hot takes. Maybe try a little more Sanka.
I read the original take on the archived page, actually loved it. Adrian, I loved the hot take. Nothing irritates me more than when someone asks me “Do you like A or B better?” Sometimes things stand (or fail) on their own unique merits (or lack thereof). Not everything needs to be compared to something else or something from the past to be good or bad. Adrian, keep being you. Your ability to craft truly imaginative and hilarious insults is second to none.
I love your rants (heart emoji)
But I could have used something on Rivian now being the company who HAS to have those silly Baymax eyes on everything.
I had my issues when it first appeared on the R1, and I think they could have taken the opportunity to develop it a bit further on their new subsequent vehicles. But the down the road graphic is not something to be taken lightly, and they are not really an established OEM yet, so I understand why they’ve left well alone.
I hate to use the Cybertruck as a good example of anything, but that it doesn’t look like the other four (?) Tesla models, IS some kind of thoughtful design development.
Would be great if the troubled Rivian company merged with BMW and (Citroën) DS, so the next model could get robot eyes, beaver teeth and Fu Manchu DRLs 😀
(shit, I have to draw that now!)
The Cybertruck is a lot of things, but thoughtful design development isn’t one of them. It’s certainly a development, of what I’m not entirely sure.
I also hate it. Just an example of a not so old car company not getting stuck in everything looking the same.
Like when Mercedes-Benz went from the Paul Bracq models to the egg shaped headlights. Something quite different, but people bought it anyway (maybe a bad example, as the company was old at the time and they kind of kept that archaic radiator grille)
my biggest beef/eye-roll in the whole comparison game, and I cannot believe it has not been mentioned here at all yet, was to the AMC Gremlin; I saw that repeatedly & just thought “no, it isn’t” like one at all. It definitely has more Golf/Integrale/Lada vibes so those didn’t bother me, at least they’re all hatchbacks with similar greenhouses; the Gremlin was none of those things! Not to hijack Adrian’s, but that my rant.
Man, as an early bird reader of the Autopian, I miss out on a lot of the late afternoon – evening good stuff.
Just gonna say, I enjoy the rants and I don’t take them personally. But I’m also a fan of British comedy and I usually pretty comfortable identifying when it’s in good fun.
Hell I found DT’s timing belt take to be way more offensive than this (though I still have to get my hands on the unedited version).
As pointed out below, it can be read here:
https://web.archive.org/web/20240312215337/https://www.theautopian.com/the-rivian-r3x-is-not-a-retro-design-and-isnt-a-golf-a-delta-integrale-or-a-lada-niva-so-stop-saying-it-is/
Thank you! My days is better for
I think a fun article (members only?) would be to highlight and discuss the edits here. I thought the original article was stellar.
I’m definitely stealing “dead-eyed buzzword puppet” for regular use.
Awesome thank you.
I hear ya. I’m always “driving home from work” and “spending quality time with my wife”. Bullshit.
So, in short is “stop having fun”. So British.
While I disagree with Adrian’s opinion, I’m a sad this rant got neutered to the point of boredom before I could read it.
Adrian’s rants and insults are true art.
It’s on the Internet archive if you want to read it.
I’m inept. Linky please.
It’s a bit of a spicy take, but tbh I’d only remove the para under “a good product creates its own buzz.” The rest is vintage tosser-in-black-in-a-Mondial and I dig it.
That said, the post could use a little more self awareness. To an experienced trained designer, the R3 looks nothing like an OG VW Golf. To a normal human being, it’s a fking VW Golf reboot with a cute face. That’s just the truth and you know I’m right, otherwise you wouldn’t be protesting this much. 😀 (it looks absolutely nothing like a Niva, though).
And even if we didn’t reference past avatars of hatchbacks when describing this car, the fact is that it’s not a novel, sui generis blank sheet design like the Cybertruck. It’s a modern hatchback with Rivian looks, and of course people are going to draw parallels. That’s what people do.
It feels fresh or novel because the public who’s old enough to shop for cars (rather than buy whatever is cheapest on the BHPH lot) and still young enough to care did not grow up with ubiquitous hatchbacks. In Yurp? Maybe. But in Murica, hatchbacks have been thin on the ground. Most of the buying public (here, since Rivian is a US make) who gets excited about new models wasn’t born the last time a Dodge Omni actually ran properly. So yeah, hatchbacks aren’t new, but to a generation or two of buyers, they are. Some people are getting into cassette tapes now. What a world.
Anyway. I’m not an editor (anymore, and certainly not here) and it’s not my place to diss grouchy uncle A or the more sensitive made-in-USA editors. I do think one paragraph could have been excised because it doesn’t really add anything but almost-boomer vitriol, but I also don’t think it deserves two long ed notes from the two founders.
Live long and prosper, Adrian, and give us more spicy takes. More about cars and less about the social media Zeitgeist.
I’ll say this. Designers are a real thing and not every asshole with an opinion is one. And some of the make a shit ton of money (two choice laptops mofo), so there.
That said, we all have an eye and a right to our opinion. I really like the Rivian design aesthetic and the R3 is particularly fetching in and out to my eye. I also believe it was smart of them show it. I suspect there is a reasonably healthy amount of overlap in the Venn diagram of affluence, patience, and certain electric cars which makes it a good choice to reveal sooner than later.
The Apple one is 8 years old and the Dell was cheap.
100% joking. I mean, when I heard about the Mondial I was ready to setup a Go Fund Me for you.
Next terrible joke: Just how good a designer are you?
I hear designers who like The Beatles make ten times those who don’t.
I got a million of them. Which is more than you’ll make in your lifetime.
Desiccated humor usually goes over so well. But seriously, I meant it as a compliment. As a person who likes design but has basically negative talent for it, I have respect and awe for those who do. Now let’s talk about that raise.
How good a designer am I? Obviously everything I ever did was genius!
Tbh, sketching and rendering was never my best skill. Although I’m at a professional level, there were always kids far better at it than me. My strengths really lie in critical thinking and asking awkward questions, and generally bucking the consensus. To give you an example: we had the Defender 130 (my car) model in the studio in full MENA spec, alongside a Nissan Armada. At that time the Defender wasn’t going to get a V8. At a review when Massimo was everyone was asking for opinions, I simply pointed to the V8 badge on the Nissan and said “that’s our biggest problem at the moment”.
I foolishly invited the Autopian staff to gather gather at a location I was suggesting. I want you to know that I specifically mentioned you because I was really hoping you could be there too.
Now, let’s talk about your’s and Jason’s hair stylists.
My hair is fucking spectacular. So is Jason’s, for a different reason.
Agreed! Note that I’ve had the same haircut for 40 years. I am Kenough.
A couple of years ago sadly I had to say goodbye to my fake dreadlocks as they were causing me hair loss. We had a good run, but I loved having them and I miss them.
Adrian, while you are well accredited in your opinion, you are facing one giant caveat: You are coming from a background of Europe, with European cars that the majority of the US consumers, enthusiastic, have been lacking.
Your opinion is accredited, but you lack any American longing for small-footprint, handy hatchbacks. The fact that you own a Mini clubman proves it.
The R3X is exciting to the US because our market has lacked a lot of what this design represents. EVs end up in two categories here: “Futuristic designs” or “Modern Jellybeans.”
We need adopters of small-footprint, while granted too high, vehicles here in the USA.
Globally, your opinion is sound, Locally, your opinion is blind.
This
Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Adrian live in the United States for a number of years?
Nope, never live there.
When they heard he was a Brit who didn’t like The Beatles, they wouldn’t let him in.
I get that, but that’s not really the point of the article.
The point of your article is that hype should NOT be based on passed hype but of new design.
Instead of showing relying on a hype of a GOOD new design, you are complaining about reliance on OLD design for hype.
Why not complain about how the Aptera gets a bad rap or the fact the Volkswagen XL1 got should be the standard?
I would rant about the Aptera but I would risk upsetting my good friend Toecutter.
Put me on the list. I insist.
“…talking about the Delta what they really mean is…”
…I want a Saab-Lancia 600. Maybe that’s just me, though.
No, I can assure you, I want one as well. But I regularly want to start a rescue for lost, unwanted and abused Lancias and Fiats, so do with that what you will…
Aw, I can just see the lot full of sheepish little waif vehicles unable to meet your eye, taillights wriggling sheepishly, hopefully, for attention…..
Ms Andrea’s Home for Wayward Cars
I would give them all the attention in the world!
Right?
Read to them from the Bentley equivalent, change their air filters, polish their headlights…
I’m already learning Italian to speak with the Lancia I have, so they get bedtime stories in their mother tongue
Can we just think something looks cool and relate it to the things we know or are familiar with, without judgement?
Albeit this seems more pointed at your colleagues than us, it still feels gatekeepy instead of informative. If people who know their shit pissed you off this much, wow we better never compare vehicles to other vehicles without a proper education EVER again.
Not a fan of that whole vibe, as a general enthusiast.
FOR REAL. Adrian knows modern car design, I’ll give him that much, but too often comes across as looking down his nose at his whole audience and even fellow designers. It doesn’t fit the vibe of the rest of The Autopian at all. It’s specifically the vibe I come here to avoid, turned up to 11.
And this is one SPECTACULARLY bad take! Granted, it’s common for artists and creative types to get offended when someone compares a creative work to another creative work, as in this culture originality is put up on a pedestal so the goodness of something is often equated with how unique it is. But the reality is, everything is derivative, and there’s nothing wrong with that. Originality is most often simply a novel combination of attributes of other things.
And something creative types forget is that when the general public says “oh, that reminds me of (thing),” it’s usually a compliment. It’s saying “this gives me the same vibes as another thing I already have positive associations with, and I like it.”
I get it, I used to draw cars all throughout my childhood and at one point dreamed of being a car designer. Every other kid I showed my sketches to would say something like “that looks like a Batmobile!” and it drove me insane because that absolutely wasn’t what I was going for. But now I see that was just their way of saying “this is cool, it reminds me of another thing I think is cool.”
On the one hand, Adrian is right that the R3X has plenty of originality and isn’t directly copying any one specific thing. But even if it wasn’t intended to look retro, it unavoidably does, because boxy and angular styling like that happens to be a shared trait with lots of retro cars that people love. I also think Adrian is seriously forgetting the power of vibes and aesthetics. It doesn’t have to get the proportions exactly right to be recognizable, how else would we recognize caricatures, cartoons, and other adaptations? It happens to look very similar from the side to a Lancia Delta or an old VW Rabbit (the four-door equivalent of the Golf here, which I suspect some Americans forgot isn’t also called the Golf). And because it’s also tall and off-roady, we compare it to the Lada Niva as well.
Here in the States, of course, we didn’t get the Lada Niva or the Lancia Delta Integrale, so we experience them vicariously through YouTube and social media, longing for cars like that to either exist again and be sold here or to someday be rich enough to afford an imported example. Then Rivian unveils a future product which appears to promise a similar experience for an attainable price, and everyone gets excited, comparing it to cars they never got to experience in hopes that a Rivian R3X will be able to give them a taste of that experience.
Criticizing people for making those comparisons and insisting we evaluate it based on its own merits is just wrong. We ARE evaluating it on its own merits, and its merits are that it gives off the same vibes as a bunch of cars with great designs that we already love, without being a direct copy of anything. It’s a good design, and it’s derivative, and it’s retro. Deal with it.
This is fair, but the point is it’s not the public saying it.
The point is was trying to make is these two DO NOT KNOW THEIR SHIT. One is a product designer (apparently) and the other a marketer.
I thought that came across very clearly. I’m not a designer and well aware of it, but I do know what I like and don’t like overall. I love your articles where I can find specific details to explain why I like or don’t like an overall design. I am one of the people who thinks this Rivian has Niva vibes – doesn’t look like a copy, but when I first saw the rear 3/4 view the Niva was the first thing that came to mind. Keep up the good work.
It’s admirable Autopian also hires blind people to write about cars.
Wait who? Did Jason lose his sight to lead poisoning? Did David’s eyes fill with razor sharp flakes of Fe2O3 robbing him of his eyesight?
It’s not a retro design (messiah)…it’s a very naughty boy.
Why did you post three pictures of the same car under the “Rivian Nailed It” embed?
Mueheheh
Yeah, it’s clearly a Hyundai Pony.
The vehicle clearly has “classic” design cues. The specific purpose, cost, type, whatever of the Rivian R3 doesn’t matter. It’s not necessarily “retro” nor is it “curve-by-curve-line-by-line-clone” of a classic hatch. However, it has cues and features that are designed to evoke feelings that hearken back to the classic hot hatches and rally cars of yore. The designers of the R3 even said as much.
There have been a billion different hatchback cars and hot hatches made. Most made in the past 20 years do not have even remotely similar proportions, roof lines or body lines. This vehicle is directly referencing a certain style from a specific era of hatchback vehicles.
That doesn’t mean it’s a clone or a modern interpretation of any specific hatch, but it’s clearly meant to remind you of those classic 80s and early 90s hot hatches.
Also, going to be honest, this writing of this article was not good. All of the ad-hominem attacks and and constant insults against other people just comes off as extremely childish and lazy writing. It’s the kind of terrible content that turned me away from Jalopnik, and I’m disappointed to see it appearing here now. It possible to be divisive, provocative and thought provoking without resorting to personal attacks and vulgar insults. You, and by extension The Autopian’s Editors need to do better.
I didn’t make any personal attacks – I attacked their comments and arguments, which are misguided and wrong. Was I harsh? Yes but both these individuals have a far larger reach and audience than I do, so they have a responsibility not to misinform. I’m punching up, not down.
One of the YT channels you attacked had only a few thousand subscribers. Yes they are cringey and wrong, but seems like better targets could be found. Also the whole “Old Man Yells At Cloud” vibe was strong in this article.
“I didn’t make any personal attacks”
-Adrian, 2024
“when the dim light bulb rattling around his empty skull briefly flickered into life”
“these shit-witted winkle ticklers”
-Also Adrian, 2024
Come on, those are awesome! If someone called me that in a published article, I’d laugh by arse off and buy them a pint of room temperature beer.
Oh, absolutely! I take absolutely no issue with Adrian personally attacking people, or denying that he did. Both of those are funny, and totally on brand.
You literally called them “shit-witted winkle ticklers” in the juvenile “rare-insult” “adjective + curse word + noun” style.
I get it’s meant to come off as light hearted, but it comes off as extremely childish. I understand The Autopian isn’t meant to be like a paper magazine in terms of being formal and proper, but this is just bad.
I’m attacking their arguments, not their person. I’m not criticising their appearance or anything other than their bad arguments, which I backed up. I said it elsewhere: was I harsh? Yes but these people have a much bigger audience and more influence than me, and pass themselves off as experts in a field they are not. I’m punching up not down.
Excuse me, but you called someone a “shit-witted winkle tickler”. What exactly do you think the phrase “shit-witted” means? You’re literally calling them a shit-head or a dumbass ….and that’s somehow NOT attacking their person? Then you called another one empty-headed …as if that is also somehow not an attack on the person?
On top of that, one of the people you attacked has ~4,500 subscribers on YouTube, and his Rivian video has about 4,000 views. That’s a small-potatoes YouTuber. Yet somehow you’re “punching up”? I would certainly hope The Autopian is getting more than 4,000 page views in 3 days.
and look Adrian, I LOVE a good humorous tounge-in-cheek, profanity-laced, anger-filled rant. Just make sure your rant is attacking the people’s points, and clearly explaining WHY the point is wrong. You had a lot of good arguments in your article, but I think it was overshadowed by overbearing hostility towards other people stating their opinion. I think it was attempting to come off as light hearted, but missed the mark.
My guess is that it’s partly cultural zeitgeist: British -and especially Australian- poking fun can come off as much more harshly meant to an American audience.
My first peek into the differences came from the book Rommel: Gunner Who? By Spike Milligan. That opened my eyes as a young teen. Hell, just the way members of Parliament yell at speakers felt unseemly the first few times I heard it. Cultural differences
I think it’s this. I consume primarily British media, and the original article just gave me that energy. Obviously it’s ranty and childish, but that’s half the fun. Half the shit that I find hilarious wouldn’t resonate with most Americans (well, it would probably offend the hell out of them.)
I wasn’t around yesterday, so I missed it, but the response to this article and Jason’s mea culpa made me genuinely think Adrian was tossing around racial or homophobic slurs, or doxxing toecutter. Then I read it, and all I could think was “they know they clicked on an Adrian article, right?”
meh. let’s all calm down.
Shit witted: their wits are not the sharpest. Of dim wit. Makes arguments of dubious merit due to the lack of wit.
He has two channels and cross promotes them constantly. The other one has 360k subscribers.
Swomebody’s cwwannkky!
I really don’t think it’s meant to look like an 80s or 90s hatchback, or that it remotely does.
I do think that it is a clean and good looking hatchback, which makes it look rather different from anything made in the last 25 years.
Maybe you’re just confusing “good looking hatchback” with “retro”?
Adrian, I really wish you’d be less circumspect in your articles. Quit beating around the bush and tell us what you really think!
C’mon, don’t be shy!
You are right, it’s not a Lada, Delta or a Golf. Those were all awesome cars, this is just a junk faxsimile of those above cars.
I can’t help it- it reminds me of my old VW Rabbit
From the firewall forward, I agree with you.
From the firewall back… come on, it’s retro, and it does look like the Lancia at least.
It’s only retro because we’ve seen hardly any honest to goodness well designed hatch backs for the last decade.
Well I totally agree with you there!
The current Mazda3 is quite a sharp shape, and I’d place it firmly in the camp of “modern”, even though some details elude to 90s.
If it was “generic modern” design, I’d expect like the mazda, a pointy snout with smeared back headlights (partially since that’s easier for aero and pedestrian safety), I’d expect the shoulderline to wrap all the way around the back to make the greenhouse a “separate volume”, and the typical flared out wheel arches astra-J-coupe-stance, but it seems like that stuff is all sooo 2010s.
In trying to get away from all these elements, they’ve ended up back at the same rational, minimalist principles which we last saw with all those 70s/80s designs done by the likes of Gandini and Giugiaro.
Jeff Hammoud even said “So on our image boards, we had the Delta Integrale and the Audi Quattro coupe from that era.” and to have “more of that nostalgic feeling where it looks modern, but where it looks like it’s from the future, and the past, at the same time.” so any implied reference to these designs was deliberate.
I made a similar argument on another article about this. I compared it to the 1st gen BMW Mini – where that car took general ideas from the primal mini but still put them into a nice modern form, it relied heavily on that retro chic aesthetic of the time. This Rivian I think can be seen as having some influence of older cars, but it’s not like a shameless rip off, it’s a deeper understanding of actual design principles, and I think it’s well executed. The blacked out rounded A pillars and the kind of window shapes you get towards the back do feel like the kind of late model concept SAABs in terms of design language and the execution of really clean forms, but yeah, I agree that there really just hasn’t been any hatchbacks designed this well in a long while
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think the Polestar 2 also has a similar hood/shut line thing going on. I’ve been rather partial to it, although I think the Honda E and R3 are doing it better.
Edit: nevermind, it’s in where the line originates–totally different, as there isn’t a ‘turnaround’, it goes across the whole body.
Reductive observation or criticism is an instinctual associative human process (What is this thing, how do I interact with it? It makes me uncomfortable. It looks like this to me, so that’s how I’ll approach it) designed to accommodate rapid assimilation of the strange and suggest a course of action for proceeding.
It’s a defense mechanism designed to facilitate action when hesitation or deliberation might get you killed. It’s also counterproductive in non crisis situations as well as lazy and useless in the specific. Take the example below:
Imagine if the only striped animal you’ve ever seen is the zebra. Trying to interact with a tiger as your association with zebras indicates will not end happily for you.
Have you noticed just how much of our public discourse is contrived to avoid deliberation and couched in terms of crisis, panic, and emergency, even when they’re not?
“The most important election of our lives!!!”
“The crisis at our border!!!”
“So and so was snubbed by the Oscars!!!”
“It’s the new Lada!!!”
It’s deliberate, to trick our minds into avoiding analysis and moving immediately to opinion or action. (Hate!, Love!, Buy!, Worship me!) It’s an insidious process intended to boost emotional response (usually some form of anger) above reason and, worse, to instill unthinking response as our default through desensitization. This generally leads to faulty assumptions, comical errors, and, frequently, actual disasters.
Unfortunately, this type of reductive argument or premise is the predominant model of mass media communication and, especially, the internet: it’s the antithesis of actual thought.
We adopt labels because they’re easy. Sadly, there are too many “influencers” (another label) out there who are, usually, not actually expert at anything, but have stumbled across an attractive method (or they’re just pretty or funny so we like watching them) to pass off their opinions as informed. It is our greatest vulnerability as thinking creatures; that is, not really thinking.
Adrian, I believe you more than adequately addressed this weakness with regard to automatically declaring an automotive design as an extension of, or return to, anything that came before.
Yes, there have been basic conventions used in car design (one box, two box, three box) forever, but these are not specific to a single era and, perhaps, will not dominate forever.
Saying that the R3 is the new Lada, or Rabbit, or whatever, is inaccurate, at least, and prejudicial, at worst. Carrying affections, expectations, dislikes, and distrusts forward to a new car because it reminds us of something will lead to errant conclusions about the new thing. I mean, is it a good idea to treat your new lover like your old flame just because of a surface resemblance?
So why do influencers do it? Power, prestige, and money. It’s solely for them, not for us. Be good to remember that.
Anyway, that’s my rant for this evening.
You know, though, I think the R3 drew its inspiration from … just kidding.
I could just say well put, but b/c it’s the 21st century, I’ll go with Family Guy instead. 😉
https://youtu.be/lrD22vHm0FQ?si=Oz6Hda-BEMkaciS9
I love Family Guy for all the wrong reasons.
Me too. The show’s ability to simultaneously be quite low brow (pretty much any Quagmire bit) and surprisingly high brow (stuff like this) is quantum-level good.
Or as Peter put it once “our research shows if you like this, you’re somehow a member of generation X and a teenager?”
Shut up, Meg!
If you’re gen x you absolutely are a teenager too. Would a well adjusted, responsible adult extricate batteries with a chainsaw?
Extremely well argued. Gives you the side eye
Evolutionary psychology is hopelessly reductive
Yep. Too much fight or flight still hardwired into the lizard brain that functions best on minimal information input .
I’m sorry but you didn’t address what I really needed – what am I to do with a striped three-box I don’t want to say it’s urgent and pressure you but it does look hungry and not herbivorous
Whatever you do, don’t turn your back.
Do you stare it down, or not?
-I never can remember that part
No, they take that as a challenge. Avoid eye contact, keep them in sight and back away slowly. Once out of sight, run like Hell. If they attack, try and gouge out a headlight or disable a wheel. If they get you on the ground, you’re roadkill.
Pretty sure I can take an older Rabbit: they’re vulnerable at the wing vents. If it’s a Lada Niva, I’m fucked
One that has really seen an increase lately: “[Public Figure] Breaks Silence About [Current and Non-Controversial Thing]”
No, this person commented on this thing, which makes sense while it is current and relevant. “Breaking silence” implies some sort of nonexistent cover-up or reluctance to comment on trauma. It’s just about as bad as “You’ll Never Believe What [Person] Said About [X]!” or “What [Person] Said Leaves People Stunned!” and it doesn’t trigger as many people’s clickbait radar (yet).