Good morning! Today we’re in Indiana looking at cheap old Jeeps to determine whether the newer “tame” Jeeps measure up to the old ones. But first let’s see if you chose flowery prose or shiny wheels yesterday:
I’m amazed! Not that the Lincoln won, but that the Tempo broke twenty percent! Onward to glory, brave warrior. And I’m happy to hear that I’m not the only one who hates those stupid aftermarket wheels on the Lincoln.
Now, as you are all acutely aware, we have someone around here who is a little bit of a Jeep fan. And I happen to know he has some strong opinions on what constitutes a “real Jeep.” As it so happens, I agree with him, and I was driving a Jeep before he was even a gleam in his father’s eye:
That’s me in 1987, at the tender age of 14, learning how to maneuver my Uncle Bill’s four-speed Jeep Scrambler around the side yard. It was the first vehicle I ever drove, and my cousin and I had lots of fun bombing around in it for a couple of summers, even getting it stuck in a ditch once (Uncle Bill is gone, I can admit that now), and I loved every second of it.
So I have some strong opinions about what makes a “real Jeep” as well. One of these checks most of the boxes for me: solid axles, a removable top and doors, low-range four-wheel-drive. But I’ll tell you right up front that both of them lack one vital component necessary to the essence of Jeepness: a clutch pedal. Will you miss it? How do they measure up? Let’s find out.
1995 Jeep Wrangler – $3,800
Engine/drivetrain: 2.5 liter overhead valve inline 4, three-speed automatic, part-time 4WD
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Odometer reading: 113,000 miles
Runs/drives? Yep!
It’s funny now to think that when the YJ Jeep Wrangler came out, Jeep purists scoffed at it. It was too soft, too nice inside; the joke was that “YJ” stood for “Yuppie Jeep.” But compared to today’s Wrangler, this thing is practically an ox cart. It has leaf springs on both axles, lots of bare painted steel inside, and a simple, stout, all-mechanical drivetrain. By comparison, the new Wrangler coming out next year has power seats. I mean, come on. Might as well be a freaking Avalon.
Under this Jeep’s externally-latching hood is probably the least desirable drivetrain ever installed in a Wrangler: AMC’s 150 cubic inch inline four, and a three-speed Torqueflite automatic from Chrysler. I’ve driven a four-cylinder Wrangler before, but it was a stickshift; it wasn’t fast, but it was fun anyway. I imagine this one feels like it’s dragging an anchor everywhere, with that slushbox sucking all the fun out of it.
Condition-wise, it’s only okay. The seller has done a lot of recent mechanical work, and it runs and drives well, but rust, that old Midwestern car nemesis, is starting to show its ugly head. From the photos, it appears to be confined to the body tub; the frame looks clean, at least, so there’s a solid platform to work from. This is a hard-top Wrangler, but of course the top can be removed, as can the doors, and the windshield folds down if you really want to get hardcore about it.
YJ Wranglers never really got cheap; this is about as low as a running/driving one that isn’t a pile of rust ever got. It’s too bad about the automatic, but maybe it can be swapped for a proper transmission.
2005 Jeep Liberty – $3,500
Engine/drivetrain: 3.7 liter overhead cam V6, four-speed automatic, part-time 4WD
Location: New Whiteland, IN
Odometer reading: 112,000 miles
Runs/drives? Sure does
In 2001, Jeep’s XJ Cherokee, beloved by David and budget off-roaders all over the country, sailed off into the sunset after seventeen years of production. It was replaced by this vehicle, the Liberty. Gone was the old four-liter inline six, the solid front axle, the ruggedly blocky good looks. Most of the Jeep faithful just ignored it.
This Liberty is powered by a 3.7 liter V6, an ill-fated detour on the way to today’s ubiquitous Pentastar V6s and Hemi V8s. This engine doesn’t have a great reputation; it’s a bit low on power for its size and fuel consumption, and it has a habit of dropping valves as it gets older, from what I’ve read. This one is claimed to be in good shape, and it doesn’t have many miles on it, but it’s something to be aware of.
The Liberty was available with a manual, but this one is an automatic, as I imagine most were. At least it does have a proper 4WD transfer case with a low range. The Liberty never looked the part to me; it’s too soft, too roundy, and the interior looks like every other mid-2000s Chrysler product. If not for the 4WD system, this thing might as well be a PT Cruiser. But it is a lot more suburb-friendly than the old rough-and-tumble Wrangler.
At least it’s in good shape. The paint is nice and shiny, the interior is clean save for a spot or two, and I don’t see any signs of rust. That doesn’t mean it isn’t there, of course; road salt is a way of life in most of America’s midsection.
Everyone who has ever loved a Jeep has an opinion about when the brand lost its way, or whether or not it actually did. There’s no denying that the later Jeep platforms are a lot nicer than the old leaf-sprung beasts, but are they still Jeeps? Are you more willing to sacrifice some ride comfort and convenience features to keep the pure experience? Or would you rather have something nice that still has some minor-league off-road chops for occasional use?
(Image credits: Craigslist sellers)
Liberty all the way. I still believe these are great, despite the lack of love for them.
https://www.theautopian.com/what-it-was-like-owning-and-fixing-a-jeep-after-owning-over-100-non-jeeps/
Great Showdown, Mark!
Liberty for me. The YJ with the 4 cyl and 3 speed autotragic is the WORST powertrain for these. Plus the Liberty is basically a station wagon.
And if I must have a vehicle with a slushbox, the 3.7L V6 will do a lot better with a slushbox than the old AMC 2.5L 4cyl.
You can LS swap the Wrangler…
I mean technically you can swap an LS in anything
Neither one is desirable but might as well be comfortable. Liberty.
My friend’s Liberty fell over while it was stopped.
Granted, it was stopped on a snowbank, but still – it wasn’t moving, and then it fell over.
I actually didn’t mind the way it drove before that, but somehow the Passat TDI that succeeded it was a better vehicle, even as it rusted out and then needed a fuel pump.
The Wrangler might be a rusty bucket, but the drivetrain will never die, and it’ll always live up to your low expectations.
“The Wrangler might be a rusty bucket, but the drivetrain will never die, and it’ll always live up to your low expectations.”
But it’s such a gutless powertrain, you’ll WISH it would just die…
It’s gotta be the Liberty, mainly because it’s actually viable transportation.
The 4cyl. YJ with an automatic is a fight pig as a daily driver. Dangerously under powered for modern traffic, lousy MPG’s, horrible ride quality, Conestoga wagon handling, and 3rd. world NVH control. What’s not to love?
The Liberty? Well, it actually would be a decent daily driver. Say what you want about them not being an XJ. In most respects, they were an improvement over the XJ. Just the idea of Jeep moving to an independent front suspension with rack and pinion steering made it a much better road vehicle while still having decent off-road shops. Approach and departure angles, break-over, solid rear axle, locking transfer case with low range, all made it surprisingly capable in stock form.
The problem was always the styling. Being cute and bubbly just didn’t appeal to XJ people, or make drivers in general. Women loved it however. At one time my wife, sister, sister-in-law, and mom, all owned a KJ Liberty. They sold extremely well and met or exceeded XJ sales for the entire KJ run.
The Wrangler may not be comfortable or zippy, but it’s likely to get you where you want to go. Having owned a Liberty, (Which I’ve happily maligned here before…) I can definitely say that a clapped-out Wrangler is still the better choice.
Everything is reasonably easy to get to and fix with a minimum of contortions and hassle on a Wrangler. The Liberty? Well, when the power steering lines spring a leak, you have to take the whole grille, A/C condenser, and radiator out to get to the stupid things where they’re buried behind the bumper and front structure. Brakes that are under-sized for its weight and wear out too quickly. The many woes of the Chrysler 3.7 V6 engine… Just … no. Please, lord, no…
Well for that has to be the cheapest running Wrangler I have ever seen so Wrangler. But if i had $7,000? Yeah 2 Wranglers. The liberty has the looks to go with the mall crawling usage of the suburban soccer Karen.
I’m not a Jeep guy, so all I really know about them I have learned from reading this site. Based on that, I’m voting Wrangler since it has more rust.
I’d love to have a Wrangler at some point, but I think I’d push for something a bit nicer to make the most of the experience. The TJ seems like a better balance of old/new tech, and looks more pleasing to the eye. For me, Jeeps are all about image- a stylish toy for summer cruises into town with your friends. I see some TJs listed near me in similar condition for only a few grand more, and you can get something truly nice if you push even further- but probably still less than what it would cost to make this YJ presentable.
If I just wanted something to beat up off-road, (which I don’t) I’d just take my ATV, which will run circles around either of these.
I voted Liberty- I don’t hate the look, and honestly it would do a better job at the sort of automobile “off-roading” I’d actually do- Longer trips on mixed surfaces to go camping, mountain biking, etc. (Overloading basically.)
I had a 2003 Liberty that I drove for 11 years. I had the transmission fail in year 8 but other than that, it ran great, and it could handle any weather the Pacific Northwest could throw at it. Oh, you are stopped uphill in snow? No problem.
The Liberty is a truly awful vehicle. Transmissions will fail at the drop of a hat and of the two friends I’ve had that have owned one, both ended up catching fire in parking lots.
Given the primary use of a Liberty is mall crawling, what does every mall have? Parking lots, so yeah fire in the parking lot yeah yeah. I know you cant tell but you need to sing that last line.
even with slushbox 3 speed, weak 4 cylinder and the wrong shaped headlights the Wrangler is the correct answer. Nice that the rear frame arches have been done already as well. I would not give him over 2K for it though.
Normally I pick the not-Chrysler-product. Today I will go with the ‘less-Chrysler-product.’
The liberty falls in the same category as a ford edge, chevy traverse, or nissan rogue: utterly forgettable transportation appliance.
Everyone is bagging on the Liberty but you know what it has? A spare tire mount on the back that should have DT salivating.
I have to vote YJ becsue solid axles but it’s a nervous vote becsue there are no pictures of the problem spots on the frame….
Just imagine a frame with holes where the metal used to be.
actually there were two, one picture for each side and you can see the weld in caps in the pictures.
I’m not too impressed with either one, but my sense of self-respect makes me lean toward the Wrangler.
At least the Liberty was available with a diesel. Actually, it was also available on export market PT Cruisers too 😛
I don’t know why they waited so long to offer a diesel Wrangler over here.
Between these two, the blue YJ.
Also, the Liberty was still called Cherokee in other markets. What if they had kept using the name here? Better than the new one that just got killed off…
The Xj could be had with a Renault 2.1 Diesel, just saying
XJ’s and the YJ (as the one used here)/TJ are completely different. While I’m not going to say something I’m not positive about with the Wrangler’s predecessor, the CJ, I can say no Wrangler until the 2018 JL was ever available with a diesel, and that’s his entire point:
Maybe it’s a simple swap, but swaps are not factory. Only time factory swaps are a thing are like the times Chrysler put carbs on some of it’s EFI production cars (once in 1958, and I think again for the 80’s Imperial).
What makes this vote difficult is deciding what you want the vehicle for. As a daily, the Liberty is probably the better choice for comfort & features. If you’re looking for a weekender or beater, the rusty YJ should be long-lived. This one is a little pricey for what you get, but negotiate a bit and it’s all right. Plus, SICK LIGHTBAR! 😀
Hard pass on both of these. The Wrangler drivetrain sounds like misery, and I wouldn’t be caught dead in a Liberty.