Sometimes I’ll start wondering about something and it’ll get stuck in my head until there’s nothing I can do but waste a bunch of time writing about it, making graphics, and publishing it right here, hoping you’ll read it and join me in my cycle of whatever. That’s where we are right now! Exciting, right? Of course it is. The thing that occupied my mind so much this morning was a simple question: how many rear mid-engined cars managed to have a somewhat-functional back seat? It’s not an easy thing to do, so I feel like those production cars that figured it out deserve some recognition. With that in mind, let’s recognize.
Again, to clarify: this is rear mid-engine cars with a back seat, not front-mid engine cars. All good?
Well, before we do that, we should probably define our terms as best we can. As I see it, there’s three main categories of where you can shove an engine in a (combustion-engined) car: front, middle, and rear. And, the “middle” category has two subcategories: front-mid and rear-mid.
To define these categories, I think the axle centerline method is best. This just means that if the engine is atop or mostly ahead of the front axle, it’s front engined. If it’s behind the front axle centerline, that’s a front-mid car. If it’s just forward of the rear axle, still between the axles, it’s rear-mid, and if it’s atop or behind the rear axle, it’s rear. Want a picture? You got it:
As you can see by that crude diagram, the rear-mid (or mid-rear; it’s funny, but I hear people say “front-mid” but almost never “mid-front,” and I hear “mid-rear” more than “rear-mid,” now that I think about it. I don’t know how those linguistic conventions ended up that way, but forgive me if I flip between mid-rear and rear-mid as I write this, because I’ve now confused myself and can no longer tell which one sounds weird) layout is clearly the most difficult when it comes to packaging a rear seat, because the engine is usually in the exact spot you’d stick a back seat.
The centerline divides front-ness from rear-ness, which is why something like a Toyota Previa, which has an engine well behind the front axle but ahead of the centerline is front-mid.
That’s why the vast majority of mid-rear engined cars are two-seater sports cars, like a Toyota MR2 or a Pontiac Fiero or a Porsche 914. Even with this packaging challenge, though, some carmakers have figured out how to crack this nut, and have made genuine four-seat, two row cars with the engine very much in the mid-rear position. It’s an impressive feat.
I think the cars that pull this off fall into two general categories: first, the Unquestionables, where the engine is very much, obviously in the middle of the car, well ahead of that rear axle. I can only think of, let’s see, five production cars that have pulled off an Unquestionable Mid-Engine Four-Seater, and none are really what you’d call volume production cars. But let’s look at them:
First, I think we have to acknowledge what is likely the purest expression of engine-in-the-middle-and-two-rows-of-seats, the Zündapp Janus, the funny and clever little microcar that’s like two BMW Isettas ass-linked. The engine is precisely in the middle of the car (it may be the only true mid-mid car out there), and there are absolutely a pair of bench seats, even if they can’t bear to look at one another. This is the most direct solution to the problem.
Our own stylish Brit design-man Adrian Clarke has one of these, and I think the Mondial might be the only one in this category to offer a convertible top, which makes it doubly impressive. It’s a terribly handsome machine, and Ferrari did a remarkable packaging job with cramming an engine and a couple of seats back there just ahead of the axle. Twin trunks, too!
This is the only one of these that I’ve driven for any length of time, and I can confirm that the rear seats are usable, at least for a little kid. Though, that kid did have a bulky child seat, too. This is also a packaging marvel, especially considering how small the car is overall. The fact the engine is transverse helps a lot.
Koenigsegg’s approach to a two-row mid-engined car is pretty straightforward: make the whole damn thing longer. The Gemera is not a small car, so it’s not shocking they were able to slide a pair of seats back there.
Another really lovely one, I think the Merak may be the most surprising, because it really does not look at all like something with a back seat. And yet, there it is, looking almost usable, even. The flying buttress C-pillar design really works here, too.
Thomas had to remind me about the Urraco; I feel like this Lambo sort of proves that three of the best-known makers of mid-engined cars – Lambo, Ferrari, Lotus – all had to take a crack at the rear seat in a mid-rear car problem. The Urraco partially manages to pull it off the same way the Koenigsegg did: by just being big.
I forgot about my Hondas! Honda has a surprising number of unusual mid-rear-engined two-row cars, like this incredible Kei-class Honda Z with four-wheel drive and a tiny fun frunk and lots of sass.
A kind commenter named Arch Duke Maxyenko reminded me of the Vamos, which I should have remembered, because I drove the damn thing!
I think that’s all that I’d put in the Unquestionable category; maybe some of you will differ, and, if so, I encourage you to tell me in the comments, or give your own examples, or just scream and punch a wall in the coffee shop or on the subway or wherever you are.
The next category I’m going to call the Borderlines, because they’re all technically mid-rear cars, but their packaging is so tight that most of them are really riding that line between mid- and rear-engined. Still, the Axle Rule is the axle rule, and these do have engines where the bulk is just ahead of the rear axle (or half-shafts), so they count.
These cars tend to be small city cars, a category that has traditionally been popular for rear-engined cars. Here’s the ones I think fit this category:
These are all quite similar: one-box (ish) city car designs with small engines located down low, under the rear floor, and in each case just ahead of the rear axles. They’re all almost rear-engined, it’s so close, but if you get under there and look, each of these cars has the bulk of the engine in front of the axles, even if the rear overhangs are so small that the engine compartment really does extend all the way to the rear.
These are actually very clever and space-efficient marvels of packaging, each and every one of these little van-ish things. This is a great layout, and I hope to see more of it.
The two-row mid-rear car was a rare novelty for the better part of a century, but with EVs becoming more and more common, I think we could find ourselves in a position where a motor mounted just ahead of the rear axle becomes not just common, but possibly the most common drivetrain layout.
It’s a good solution to the packaging problem, especially for a skate-board-chassis’d EV, and if it’s going to become a Big Thing, it’s even more important to take note of those who figured out how to cram another row of seating while sharing in-between axle space with a drivetrain, even when motors were hot, noisy, bulky things.
Did I miss any of these, in either category? Probably. Tell me in the comments!
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Yes, the Mondial was the only rear-mid 4-seat convertible from any mfr
I actually thought the last group of Microcars was actually rear-engine and not rear-mid! I didn’t know they *just* made it! Great stuff
The Tatra T613 apparently was just barely able to mount its air-cooled V8 ahead of the rear axle as well, according to one of my old classic car buyer’s guides.
Maybe Glickenhaus’s SCG Boot?
https://glickenhausracing.com/scg-boot
Some of the later Fuldamobils were RMR 2+2’s, weren’t they?
This doesn’t count because it never made it past the concept stage, but man, the Peugeot 908 RC was one sexy car. It was meant to be a high-performance luxury sedan, sharing the Le Mans-winning 908 HDi FAP’s V12 diesel.
That’s some good ontology there with the linguistic pondering. And nice to see a Glas being used in the chart; Andreas, Hans, Andreas Jr, and Hertha would be proud!
Why not be even weirder and include Matra for mid-rear THREE seaters like the Mureno and Bagheera? 😛
The predecessor to the Bagheera and Murena was a proper mid-engine 2+2 V4 sports car called the 530.
Front-mid is a lame classification. Front-mid cars are front engined.
If the majority of the engine is in front of the vehicle’s center of mass, it’s front engined. That’s my definition and I’m sticking to it.
Hey Jason, I sent an email about some relatively modern taillights that were weird to me to the tips email. Did you guys have a chance to check it out?
It doesn’t really surprise me that Adrian is a Mondial owner. First, he’s not what you might call mainstream, or a conventional thinker. The Mondial’s not very popular with Ferraristi. And, at least until recently, they were priced lower than most others and could be obtained fairly easily.
I once considered buying one at a good price. I’ve always liked them myself.
The Mondial just seems too conventional for him. I would love to drop a Tesla S Plaid package in one and go embarrass some guys in the Ferrari club who would turn their nose at the Mondial.
What about the Hobbycar B612 amphibious car? It has a mid-mounted engine as well, and seats four.
What about the Honda Acty Street Van? Two full rows of seating and a fold flat cargo area in a mid-rear layout.
Anybody happens to have a BMW i3 REX and a ruler? Hard to find good pictures, but I think the i3 might qualify by a few inches? And the REX would have not just one, but two powertrains between the seat and the rear axle.
911?????
911 is fully rear-engined
Yes, the 911 is still rear engined, but they seem to manage to bump the engine a bit more over the rear axle every couple of model refreshes. Someday it might reach mid-rear engine status.
The Adams-Farwell is best known for its rear-mid horizontal radial engine for which the exterior rotates while the crank remains fixed. The only known surviving example, from 1906, is driven from the rear seat with a folding seat at the front, so in this case its rear seat is arguably the more usable of the two. The company did offer other body styles with conventional front and rear seating as well.
Come to think of it, rear-mid engine with front and rear seats is a fairly common configuration for early automobiles. The original Ford Model A (pre-T, not post-T), the original Cadillac that was based on that Ford, and others of that era had this engine arrangement and were available with rear seats.
My god, man! How could you forget the ever popular Mega Track?!?
Yes, it is a four seater.
Yes, the M-B V12 is rear-mid mounted.
One, I would have never pegged Adrian as a Mondial man. For some reason they have always been the Rodney Dangerfield of Ferraris. But let’s get to the real point. I can’t get over how much I’m digging the Highlighter yellow/green Merak on the story leader!
no Subaru 360?
That’s rear engined!
I cannot find a Wire frame of it, but it sure appears to be in the same spot as that Lambo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiEcq6lynWI
The Matra 530 would like a word. 2+2 with a mid-mounted V4 for maximum weirdness.
a beautiful diagram of the Matra 530 :
https://absolutelycars.fr/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/schemas-matra-530-1967.jpg?w=1024
What about the Citroen DS? The space ahead of the front axle is all spare tire. There are some engine components above the axle, but the majority is behind the wheels.
https://www.veikl.com/api/Download/Preview/19485?page=1
Ugh, I also misread the title. Nevermind!
No love for the Toyota Previa? For shame. I guess it could seat 5 or more if you fold the seats up and people just pile onto the floor. Not unlike all those crazies trying to see how many people could fit into a beetle. For the record I manged 4 people, including myself, in a first generation MR2. Thankfully the drive was short.
mid rear, I didn’t see that in title too
Of all of them, I like the Mondial best. Oddly, it is one of the least popular Ferraris.
Back years ago, I saw a Lambo Urraco completely burned out. Very sad. I like those, too.
The museum has a Urraco, but I would love for us to have a Mondial to complement it. I too think they look great. What’s the line about the worst Picasso is still a Picasso?
I had zero interest and then saw the white one in a rewatch of Sorry Rotten Scoundrels a few years back. Would 100% cruise in one. The fact it is unloved just makes it better.
*Dirty… Stupid auto correct.
Is the Toyota Previa mid engine ? it’s behind the front axle
Yes, it’s front-mid.
Not if you exclusively drive it in reverse.
It seems like he was avoiding FMR layout cars despite not specifically mentioning as such, otherwise Mazdas like the Eunos Cosmo and the HD 929/Sentia would also qualify since their powerplants are mounted aft of the front axle.
wait, it’s in the title. would be nice if I could edit my comment! 🙂
You forgot the OG Honda Vamos!
Shit! You’re right! And I even drove one! Lemme fix this one. And I think I remembered another honda!
(Glances out kitchen window, looking at the centerline of my front axle relative to the engine)
You forgot the 97-2006 Jeep Wrangler.
The Ferrari Dino 308 GT4 is a rear mid engine 2+2 and the Mazda RX-8 is front mid engine 2+2.
You could sort of classify a McLaren F1 since the driver’s seat is set forward of the passenger seat.
Also the Toyota Previa is front mid engine with three rows.
F1 is mid-engined AND mid-seated.