Good morning! Today’s Shitbox Showdown competitors might seem like an odd pairing, and I suppose they are, but there is a thread of connection: They’re both manuals, and they’re both at dealerships who really make it a point of telling you that they’re manuals. I guess they got tired of potential buyers showing up and not knowing how to drive a stick.
On Friday, I threw you all into a fit of confusion, apparently, and for that I apologize. But in my defense, the instructions were right there, as plain as day, in the paragraph right before the poll. You were supposed to vote for the car you thought was worst, not best. I’m assuming that all of you who voted for the LeBaron mis-read the instructions.
I do get the feeling, however, that the majority of you understood the assignment, and placed that trashed Land Rover at its rightful place at the bottom of the heap. That thing is just too far gone to be anything but a beater trail rig. It’s cool that it’s a stickshift, but really, if you’re looking for a cheap 4X4, just get a Cherokee. You’ll hate life a lot less.
Speaking of stickshifts, have you ever gone into a car dealership and asked for one specifically? I have, many times. They look at you like you’re from Mars. When I bought my one and only new car, a Mazda Protegé, I was specifically looking for a DX model with a manual. Out of probably fifty Protegés on the lot (it was a big dealership), they had exactly two manual DXs: One in white, and one in … white. I chose the white one. That was twenty years ago, and even back then I was told, “We just don’t stock manuals much, because we can’t sell them.”
Used car dealers have it worse, because they have less control over what hits the lot. And with fewer and fewer people (here in the US, anyway) able or willing to drive a stick every year, three-pedal machines just get harder and harder to move. Worse, since buyers aren’t expecting a car to be a manual, they sometimes show up to look at a car, only to discover they don’t know how to drive it. The dealerships selling today’s cars have taken drastic measures to get the message across. Let’s take a look.
2006 Mini Cooper S – $3,995
Engine/drivetrain: Supercharged 1.6 liter dual overhead cam inline 4, six-speed manual, FWD
Location: Hurst, TX (well, of course it’s a stick!)
Odometer reading: 82,000 miles
Runs/drives? Yep
Usually, I avoid ads like this. Dealers like to add banners to their photos to keep their name in front of you, and they always seem to do it in such a way that I can’t crop it out. But the big “Manual Transmission” badge caught my eye on this one, and I immediately knew what led to it: someone called about this car, set up a “By Appointment Only” test drive, and didn’t know how to drive a stick. Maybe more than one someone.
Now, I don’t know what the take rate for manuals was on R53 Mini Coopers, but I bet it was pretty high. This is not a car I would expect to have an automatic transmission. This is not a car that is supposed to have an automatic transmission. It’s a hyperkinetic, supercharged, six-speed pocket rocket for those who want to have an absolute blast behind the wheel – in between bouts of infuriating down-time for maintenance and repairs.
This Mini has almost unbelievably low miles, though I get the feeling it’s been wrung out for most of those. I don’t know why, but this car is giving off track-toy vibes. The back seat is missing, for one thing. And there’s a tow hook, though I realize that doesn’t mean much; they’ve become a fashion accessory among certain crowds. But it just feels like this car has been driven hard.
It does run and drive well, according to the seller, except for worn-out rear struts, but it sounds like replacements might be included. It’s nice and straight, and the interior looks good too, except for the missing back seat. You’d want to go over it with a fine-toothed comb, I think, but this car with this mileage for this price feels like it could be a good deal for the right person.
2009 Hyundai Sonata GLS – $4,000
Engine/drivetrain: 2.4 liter dual overhead cam inline 4, five-speed manual, FWD
Location: Pflugerville, TX
Odometer reading: 166,000 miles
Runs/drives? Sure does
Just after I found the ad for the Mini, I found this Hyundai, with its own “Manual Transmission” text emblazoned across the photo. This one makes more sense; Hyundai Sonatas with manual transmissions can’t be too common. They’re out there, sure, but a person looking for a Sonata is more likely to be shopping for an automatic, I would imagine.
In this generation of Sonata, the manual gearbox was only available with a 2.4 liter “Theta II” twincam four, Hyundai’s spoils from the Global Engine Alliance. Certain versions of this engine have a less-than-stellar reputation, but I believe most of the problems were with later ones than this. This one, at 166,000 miles, seems to be holding up all right.
The same can’t be said for the dash top; the Texas sun has not been kind. The rest of the interior is all right for the mileage, and it looks fine outside. One photo shows the dashboard with the car running, and the tire-pressure warning light is on, but we all know how those sensors can be.
This car is priced quite a bit lower than other ’09 Sonatas I found with automatics, so I think it fits David’s “Ugly Stick” definition: a car that’s not in demand with a manual transmission. Though if I’m honest, I don’t think this car is ugly. Dull, maybe, but clean and straightforward. Maybe it’s just a sign of how fussy modern car shapes have gotten that something as generic and NPC-looking as this feels like a breath of fresh air.
I’m not part of the “no automatics ever” crowd, at least, not anymore. But I do prefer manuals when it comes to cheap cars, primarily for durability reasons. You have no idea how many ads I see for sub-$3000 cars with automatic transmission problems, and not one of them is worth fixing. Being willing and able to drive a manual is the best way to get by with cheap cars. One of these is a good daily-driver candidate, the other is more of a toy, but could be an everyday car for the right gearhead. Both feel like decent deals. Which one is your choice?
(Image credits: Craigslist sellers)
My parents had that generation of Sonata, and it was the most generic car inhumanly possible. If there was something it excelled at, it was existing. Plus, it’s not as if Hyundai had particularly great manuals, from what I remember of contemporary Tucsons and Santa Fes (probably even weirder choices with sticks). It would be a perfectly fine car for somebody, but not me.
Now, knowing the next family car is going to be automatic, and probably extremely dull, I could probably sell my wife on an R53 as the stupid unreliable backup car we don’t really need. A back seat would absolutely need to be sourced, but I can’t imagine there’s a shortage of Minis with practically new back seats in junkyards.
little late to the party but the first gen minis in the years 05-06 are actually reliable, I’ve owned two and put over 100k on them combined with autocross, track days, and just being a teenage dipshit with zero issues. Replace the timing chain tensioner (10 min job no joke), keep an eye on strut towers, and replace the power steering fan and theyre money. Lol at the people in the comments trying to be sensible with picking the hyundai.
Fellow Mini owner here, can confirm. Ours (2005 Convertible S, 6MT) has been fantastic since we bought it ~6 years ago.
Piling on. Ironically the most reliable car I’ve ever owned (18yr, 200k miles). And they like to be driven hard. Just make sure to pour more oil in when some comes out 🙂
Heart says Mini, brain say Sonata. Voted Sonata because it is a car I could actually live with long term.
Mini. It won’t be reliable, but it will be fun. Also, those look like cigarette burns in the passenger seat of the Hyundai.
It’s an immediate no on the Mini, so I’ll deal with that Hyundai but dear god, that’s 2nd generation Ram levels of dash cracking. That’s horrendous.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a car built in 2009 or later with a dash with even a single crack in it, much less looking like the salt flats. That and a high mileage Theta-II and double the mileage puts me in the mini, even if the stories I’ve heard from previous owners scare the heck out of me.
6 Months with that Mini > 5 Years with the Sonata.
Mini
Mini, please!
Because the other choice would mean driving a Hyundai, and that’s just… no.
The Mini would be fun when it ran. The nicest thing I can say about the Sonata is that only one wheel has been curbed to hell and back.
I voted Mini, the Sonata is birth control in vehicular form.
Hyundai Sonata looks like a car for Meh Car Monday column in the other website, yet i like this design.
I’ve never really heard a great review of a Hyundai manual maybe outside of some of the true sporting models, but I was prepared to go Sonata based on reliability/fixability vs. the Mini. It’s likely a more durable vehicle than the gen that followed, and I do like that gen in a clean and boring kind of way; that interior update was a nice one at least when the dash isn’t marbled as such. I could live with the dash, but the overall condition seems too questionable with what looks like cigarette burns on the passenger seat.
Dealers have been putting more features to highlight in the lead image overlays though sometimes it’s something amusingly mundane and commonplace, like “Bluetooth! backup camera!” on any car made in the last 5 years. Sure there are people driving older vehicles without that factory, but seems like there should be something else to pick out.
For manuals specifically – those that want a stick are seeking one out, so it makes sense to call it out in what’s likely a sea of slushboxes. I know people have accused dealers of trying to list them as automatic and then flip the person when they inquire, but in reality that’s just as much a waste of the dealer’s time as it is the customer. More typically the listing site or VIN decoder defaults one way or another and it doesn’t get switched.
To your point about dealerships and manuals; it doesn’t help that half the online used car listings you see that say “Manual” are actually some variety of autostick automatic. This is especially true for performance cars where people might actually want a manual but the uptake rate was really low. Dealerships do it too, like Porsche dealerships listing PDK cars as Manuals.
I’ve learned that after filtering car listings for “Manual Transmission” I now have to check the photos on each to make sure they actually have 3 pedals.
I had the same experience looking at GTI’s a few years back.
Oh yes, same with us looking for a new GTI for my wife last year.
Nice try, Tucker. You’re still not going to get me to vote for a Mini.
We’ll take the Hyundai; this generation is actually kind of handsome, and I can literally park it anywhere and not care.
For the sake of this game Mini. But for that amount of money, I am looking for a Miata in the real world.
I would not touch these modern minis no matter how nice they are or how well they drive. Any mechanic will tell you that there is not room in the engine bay to slide a sheet of paper down there and most repairs require the engine to be pulled out. Designed by engineers who hate mechanics.
Between these two, I’d take the Mini.
I strongly suspect a Sonata with a stick has it for price-point purposes and not for fun driver engagement.
{ ctrl + F } “Patrick George”
Hmm. He hasn’t chimed in. I can vote Mini with impunity.
There’s nowhere I really need to be. I have a bicycle named “Reliable Transportation” for a reason. If it breaks on the freeway, whatever, nothing matters, let it kill me. I’m picking the one that’s more fun to drive if/when it works. I know of the heavy lifting “if” is doing there. I don’t care. Vote Mini.
They are both gonna bite you sooner than later, but the mini would be fun while it lasted at least. . .
If I’m borrowing someone else’s, definitely the Mini. But I’m not keen on buying BMW parts, so if I’m buying, I’ll take the Sonata. At least it’s fixable.
I like to get where I’m going, so I’ll take the Hyundai.
The Sonata is a better car, so I voted for that one.
BMW Minis are some of the worst cars ever made
As the owner of a BMINIW all I can say is “PPPLBBBBBTHHH!!!”
The Sonata would be fine I guess whether it’s a manual or not,the Mini has to be manual,so I voted for that.
Since I already have one and am quickly learning the nuances of fixing it myself(small block buicks and big block fords are my usual repair jobs) I’ll take another mini. This one even has 8000 fewer miles than mine.
As for the frequency of manual transmissions in them, until the 2005 facelift you could only get a manual in the cooper s, after that they seemed to be about 2:1 manals to autos from my experience shopping for them.
I owned one of these Sonata’s, let me tell you. Most abysmal car I have ever drove. The handling was so wonky, I wasn’t sure what the car would do over a bump or a curve. Even driving below the speed limit this thing felt like it was pushing hard. It was the top trim platinum model only 1 year old with 9K miles on it.
I traded it in for a CTS within month’s of receiving it.
Yeah, I voted Mini
Despite a buddy of mine replacing the slave cylinder in his Cooper S 4 times in the three years he had it, I’d still go with the Mini