It’s time once again for your favorite early-morning diversion, Shitbox Showdown! Today we have a pair of “holy crap I haven’t seen one of those in forever” economy cars, but first, we need to see which scary European you chose yesterday:
Salute, Alfa! Yeah, I think that would be my choice too, if I had to choose one. But it would be fun to fix up the Rover strictly for the reactions it would get at the Portland All-British Field Meet. I don’t think I’ve ever seen one there.
You know what else I haven’t seen, at least in a very long time? A third-generation Honda Civic hatchback, or a Mazda 323 sedan. Today, we have one of each. Both run and drive, both are in reasonably good shape, and both are stickshifts. Let’s take a look.
1984 Honda Civic S – $1,800
Engine/drivetrain: 1.5 liter SOHC inline 4, 5 speed manual, FWD
Location: Garden Grove, CA
Odometer reading: 364,000 miles (I guess?)
Runs/drives? Runs great, the ad says
In 1984, the Honda Civic went from frumpy to futuristic overnight. The low, angular styling of the third-generation Civic signaled the start of something that continues to this very day: the sporty small Honda. The US wouldn’t get the Si model until 1986, but we did get a special “S” model, with a 1.5 liter version of the carbureted CVCC engine and some extra touches like sport seats and alloy wheels. The two-seat CRX was the star of the show, but if you needed a back seat, the S hatchback was a good substitute.
This Civic has been around the block; if I’m reading the ad right, it has 364,000 miles on the clock. It looks pretty good for that many miles, though we don’t get any interior or underhood photos to really assess. What we can see are a few paint flaws and a spot of rust on one back corner of the roof. Rust is the only natural predator of old Hondas, and it’s worth a closer look to make sure it isn’t too far advanced.
The seller says it runs well, and that they’ve been “fixing it up,” but no details are provided on what that fixing up entails. The whitewall tires are an interesting choice; I wonder if they managed to find new 13-inch whitewalls for sale somewhere, or if they’re impossibly old and rock-hard and need to be replaced immediately.
I confess I don’t understand the “let’s drive around with an empty basket on the roof” trend; I did it briefly when I moved, because I didn’t have a place to store the basket, and it whistled in the wind and cost me two miles per gallon. Easy enough to ditch the basket and roof racks, though. At least they left the suspension at the stock height.
1988 Mazda 323 – $2,100
Engine/drivetrain: 1.6 liter SOHC inline 4, 4 speed manual, FWD
Location: North Hollywood, CA
Odometer reading: 98,000 miles
Runs/drives? Yep
Mazda’s Familia line of small cars came to America under a few different names: it was the GLC for two generations before this car, and the Protege for three generations after, but for four years in the late 1980s it was known by the same name as much of the rest of the world: the 323.
This 323 appears to be a plain-Jane base model, with vinyl seats, and lacking niceties like air conditioning, power steering, and even a right-side mirror. Maybe they figured you won’t ever be going fast enough to be in the left lane, so you’ll never need to merge back to the right? If it is the base model, it doesn’t even have a fifth gear, but it does have multiport fuel injection, like all US model 323s.
The seller says this 323 is “great transportation” and has “no issues,” but doesn’t give us much to go on besides that. It’s on non-op registration, but has October 2022 tags. Not sure what that’s all about; maybe it won’t pass smog, so they just put it on non-op? It’s a question you’d want to ask. It is in excellent condition, with only some cracks in the dash and a slightly crooked rear bumper.
For many years, I have really liked ultra-stripper cars like this. I’ve owned quite a few over the years. But as I get older, I start to see the value in things like air conditioning, comfy seats, and, God help me, even power windows. I have to reluctantly admit that this car might not be well enough equipped for me any more.
I think either of these could still have some value as basic transportation, and either one would draw a crowd at Radwood, I bet. Which one is right for you?
(Image credits: Craigslist sellers)
I had an ‘88 Mazda 323 sedan in white with a vinyl interior as my first car! Mine didn’t have that decadent 1.6 though. Mine had the far more appropriate base spec 1.3! My seats had a vinyl weave – so much fancier than this one!
Obviously we’re all going for the Honda, but from the driver’s seat it’s the Mazda. Those 323s had the magic combination of attributes that made you drive flat out at all times. Every trip in that thing was a life-or-death race with danger all around, and you could tell the car freaking loved it.
I had the hatch of the same year. I can confirm, just enough power to make you dangerous. My favorite feature was the “crotch vent”, a vent under the steering wheel that blew air over your lap.
I’d love to see the style of wheel from that Civic on a more modern car (obv upsized, since those wheels are smaller than the brake discs on a lot of cars). I could see them looking pretty sweet on something like an Element or if you are willing to violate the “rules” and cross brand lines, maybe an Ioniq 5?
It’s the Honda for one very sentimental reason: A red 1984 Civic S was the first new car that my older sister bought, and I thought it was *really cool*. This generation of Civic was really a breakthrough in styling for Honda, and really the industry at large. It was comfortable and deceptively roomy inside. I was an as-yet unlicensed driver in high school at the time, and my sister was back living at home temporarily, so I got to spend a lot of time in that car, and it was sweet.
It may seem kind of pedestrian now, but this really was considered a cool car in 1984. Also, my sister’s previous ride had been a Triumph TR6, which characteristically spent more time on floor jacks than it did on the road. The Honda was like a Jetsons car in comparison…
Yesterday I said no to both choices. Today I say yes to both. Close inspection before purchase, of course. As others have mentioned, the Honda driver’s door is a concern, and no interior pictures? Hmm. The Mazda’s smog status raises flags, too.
The bodies and paint on both seem amazing for their age.
I love that generation of Civic. I used mine to deliver stuff and it was shocking how much you could cram into one. The hatch was wide and deep enough to fit multiple half-sheets of plywood.
“Maybe they figured you won’t ever be going fast enough to be in the left lane, so you’ll never need to merge back to the right?”
Geez. What is it with the ‘Murican obsession with the assumption that small engines & economy cars are simply incapable of achieving any speed? To be sure, there were indeed quite a few disconcertingly slow economy cars such as the early US-spec Hyundais but those Honda Civics & Mazda 323s certainly had pep ranging from adequate to cracking, especially with a stick shift transmission.
I could live with either of these, but I like the Honda better, and it would be more fun.
It’s a tough call, but Civic as a base for something far better. Neither one of these should even be used as a city car.
The Mazda almost certainly is a smog issue. It always is. This one is equipped the B6 EGi 8 valve with a whole 84HP and 90ft/lbs of torque at it’s most optimistic. And it is, in a word, terrible. How terrible?
Remember the Kia Sephia? Yeah. This is literally the same engine as the 1994-1996 ones. Which had to be de-stroked slightly to squeak by emissions. I mean seriously, this is an engine where cold starts were always accompanied by the stench of raw fuel. And emissions parts for these are pretty much purest unobtanium.
And swapping the engine to something non-shitty? Well, grab you a B6T and you’ve got nearly 140HP on tap! Not bad, huh? Only one problem: even longblocks are rarer than hen’s teeth. Only went into the BFMR, Laser TX3 (export only,) and Capri XR2 (ha ha good luck.) Or the GT-Ae, and if you touch one of those, you will be fed to the European rally fans.
The Civic has… well… it’s a California car. 1980’s Honda emissions were the worst in the world, by far. And the S claimed 50MPG which is your first warning sign. This is not the Si. This is the Civic S. For “Suck.” 1.5L carbureted EW1 engine making a tire-smoking 58HP and 80ft/lbs.
Yeah. 58 horsepower. I’m not joking. And you are not getting any more out of an EW. 0-60 is “maybe,” not “eventually.”
But, the whole chassis is closely related to the CRX. Which means parts availability for swapping to something that isn’t a dead hamster is good. (That’s also why the CRX wheels; Michelin MXL 175/70R13. But those are 0 warranty, made-in-China, less than $50/ea tires. Scrap ’em fast.)
100% on that smog issue with the Mazda. At that age, with those low miles, if it’s on a non-op with barely-expired tags, then that thing passed the last smog test it’ll ever pass during the first year of the pandemic. Not worth trying to do anything legal with it in California.
I’ll take the Civic. I had two of the CVCC-era Accord hatchbacks, and a 1981 Civic with the EM1 1.5 liter, and they were all swell and fun to drive and pretty easy to work on, although I do lament the fact that tinworm has removed nearly all of them from the streets and junkyards even here in sunny SoCal. They used to be everywhere. This one would be 5hp less fun (at least) but… my brother (and then my sister, after his demise) had an ’82 626 that was probably pretty fun when it was new (I know my other brother’s ’86 RX-7 was), but during the time I was in charge of keeping it running it was no fun at all. I’ll fiddle with ’80s Hondas pretty happily, but not so much ’80s Mazdas.
Re: The missing passenger side mirror, at that point they weren’t required in the US, so more vehicles than you’d expect just didn’t have one. My first car was a hand-me-down from my parents, a 1986 Plymouth Voyager (non-turbo, but it had the 5-speed manual), and it didn’t have one. Of course the rear view mirror also fell off, so I basically only had the driver’s side mirror to work with most of the time.
Technically they still aren’t. Federal regs say if your inside rearview mirror does not meet the field of view requirements of S5.1.1 (49 CFR 571.11) shall have a convex mirror installed on the passenger’s side.
S5.1.1 says passenger cars shall have an inside rearview mirror (except as provided in S5.3 (above)) shall have a mirror providing a field of view with an included horizontal angle measured from the projected eye point of at least 20 degrees, and a sufficient vertical angle to provide a view of a level road surface extended to the horizon beginning at a point not greater than 61 meters to the rear of the vehicle when the vehicle is occupied by the driver and four passengers (or 2 in a miata, etc).
yesterdays rover was 1 of maybe 1200 or so that actually were imported to the US. that is partly why it was more interesting I suppose. At any rate 1/3 miles and newer to boot. 323 for me please.
Typically I’d always go for a Honda, but in this case, looking at the pictures it seems as if there is a problem with the drivers side door, and with no pictures of the interior, I’m skeptical. I’m sure I’m in the minority here, but I’ll go with the Mazda.
$1800 for a working Civic with a $500-$1000 rack and basket on the roof? No brainer.
I’m a Civic-minded guy. The small Hondas have always been fun to drive, and for the price I’d be willing to gamble on there being a few miles left in the machinery. Would have been nice to see the interior and engine, plus a shot or to of the underside, but it’s still worth taking a chance. The roof rack has to go, though.
The Mazda might be just as reliable, or maybe more if the mileage is correct. But the cabin looks like it’s hosting a flea colony. Not a fan of taped-up dashboards, either. So, for cosmetic reasons alone, the Honda looks a better deal.
I had a 1990 626 for a while. Fun to drive and multi-colored body panels. It was a great car right up until the oil pan rusted just enough to become porous. Where did all the oil go?!?!
I voted Honda, but would drive either of these.
I love me some Good Little Car, but the Civic just seems nicer for the money. TBH, I’d take both if I had the space, but today, it’s the Civic.
My wife had the same year as this Civic, but it was the DX model in metallic red, plus it was an automatic. These cars were clean and simple. Manual everything, including no cruise control. The only thing I had her get after buying it was a passenger side outside rearview mirror, which was easy to install. She called it her little red car and it was a zippy little thing, and space efficient too. She had it for years, and then sold it to a friend of mine (for his Dad), who then had it for years. It’s weird, back in the day these cars were everywhere, but you hardly see them around anymore today. She definitely misses her 84 Civic DX in metallic red. Went with the Civic…duh.
Cash for Clunkers. A lot of these older cars were destroyed.
You can usually get those white walls at PepBoys. At least, you could ~7 years back when I still worked there.
My mom had an 85 civic hatch for much of my childhood and it was a reliable if basic car. I think the only options were the 3 speed honda-matic transmission that probably sucked some fun out of it and maybe a rear wiper. She also did get a dealer installed tape deck at one point. Got a new car a year before I got my licence so I never had a chance to drive it.
Easy win for the Honda. I love this era of their design and it’s a manual hatch. You’ll legitimately have fun revving it out every day, I’ll bet the shifter feels great, and I’m a hatch or bust guy at this stage of my life.
I still miss my 86 CRX (which definitely had flip-up rear seats, so not just a 2 seater), so it’s Honda for me.
They’re both cool, but I voted for the Mazda because it has 4 doors. The Civic is still cool tho
I would highly consider buying this Civic if it were closer. My dad bought a brand new Civic DX hatchback in 1989 and drove it for several years. Then he gave it to me when I turned 16 in the mid-nineties. It was a completely bare bones base model ( no AC, no radio, no right side mirror, 4 speed manual), but it was the car that I learned to drive on (I even took my DL road test in it). There is currently one just like it for sale on the Nashville Craigslist. Mighty tempting.
An easy choice. And I love those goofy wheels on the Civic.
I am not sure what’s going on with the driver’s side door on the Honda, but I voted for it anyway because it has a ton of charisma.