Welcome back to Shitbox Showdown! Today I’m dragging you all along on another trip down memory lane; I hope you don’t mind. But before we get into all that, let’s see how our cop cars did yesterday:
That’s what I expected. The Taurus is a cool idea, but a good ol’ V8 Panther is hard to deny. Personally, I might hold out for a livery-spec Town Car instead of a cop-spec Crown Vic, for the cushy interior.
Remember the cars you loved as a kid? How many of them have you since realized are kind of lame? Happens to all of us. But the thing I’ve been noticing is that as I get older, the “kind of lame” cars are the ones I actually crave. Maybe it’s just a natural result of aging to the point where I don’t give a shit what anyone thinks of what I drive, or maybe it’s because most new cars are just so damn boring that a silly throwback is an enticing alternative. These two were both cars I thought were the coolest things on the road when I was in junior high. Thirty-year-old me wouldn’t have been caught dead in them, but fifty-year-old me thinks maybe twelve-year-old me was on to something. Let’s check them out and see if you agree.
1980 Fiat X1/9 – $4,995
Engine/drivetrain: 1.5 liter overhead cam inline 4, five-speed manual, RWD
Location: Portland, OR
Odometer reading: 61,000 miles
Runs/drives? Starts and runs, but needs old gas cleaned out
I mean, come on. How can you not love a mid-engined Italian sports car, even a tiny one? Fiat’s little X1/9 is the real deal, too. It was designed by Marcello Gandini at Bertone, who also designed the Lamborghini Miura and Countach and several other cars you’ve had posters of. Its little 1.5 liter four-cylinder engine was designed by Aurelio Lampredi, famed Ferrari engine designer. Heavy hitters, both. But instead of the stratospheric asking prices of their other creations, this gold X1/9 can be had for comparative pocket change.
The X1/9’s basic layout is a formula that would later be copied wholesale by Pontiac engineers for the Fiero: Take the engine, drivetrain, and suspension from a front-wheel-drive economy car and relocate it all to just behind the seats of a small doorstop-shaped sports coupe. The X1/9 takes its engine and drivetrain from the Fiat 128, a charming, boxy little sedan that’s another personal favorite of mine. The seller says this car’s engine will run, but has some old bad gas that needs to be cleaned out of the tank (and pump, and filter, and lines, and injectors). If the rest of the car checks out mechanically, the best solution might be the famed “Italian tuneup.”
The X1/9 has a removable targa roof, which stores in the frunk when removed. Unlike some other targa-top cars I could mention (C4 Corvette, I’m looking at you), the X1/9 doesn’t turn into a shaky, floppy mess with its roof off. Fiat designed this car to meet safety standards that never came to be, and as a result, it’s a rigid platform.
The natural enemy of all Fiats from this era is rust, of course, and despite being a west coast car, this one has not escaped its wrath. The back edge of the trunk lid and the bottoms of the doors are getting a bit bubbly. It also has a little wrinkle on the right front corner below the headlight; hopefully the headlight still pops up all right. But overall, it’s exactly the condition I like for a car like this: just a little scruffy around the edges, but still looks good when you turn and look back at it in the parking lot.
1985 Dodge Shelby Charger – $4,000
Engine/drivetrain: Turbocharged 2.2 liter overhead cam inline 4, five-speed manual, FWD
Location: El Cerrito, CA
Odometer reading: listed as 111,111 (probably means unknown)
Runs/drives? Doesn’t say, but I’m going to assume it does
When I visited my dad in Las Vegas a couple of years ago, we took a tour of the Shelby American factory. There was a smallish museum attached to the factory with a lot of cool cars in it, but I was dismayed that not a single one of them was a product of Shelby’s involvement with Chrysler Corporation in the 1980s. There was a wall mural, but no cars. Not even this one, the most obvious choice, the one that started it all: the Dodge Shelby Charger.
It’s a simple formula, and one that Carroll Shelby knew well: Stick the biggest engine in the smallest car, and go tear shit up. For mid-1980s Chrysler, there was no “biggest engine;” the overhead-cam 2.2 liter four was pretty much it. But starting in 1984, it gained a turbocharger, and it woke up the little L-body Omni and Charger nicely. The four-door Omni version was called the GLH, which stood for “Goes Like Hell,” and for an econobox at that time, it most certainly did.
This car has had its original turbocharged 2.2 replaced by a later “Turbo II” engine. I know there are differences, and I know it means a bump in power, but I don’t know the specifics. I do know we have at least one commenter who will happily explain it; I’ll leave it to them to do so. The seller doesn’t say whether this car runs and drives or not, but I am operating under the assumption that it is able to leave this driveway under its own power.
The engine isn’t the only part of this car that came from a different car. Shelby Chargers were pretty thoroughly color-coordinated; the paint color (blue with silver stripes, silver with blue stripes, burgundy with silver stripes, or black with silver stripes) matched the interior. This car’s seats appear to have come from a silver and blue Shelby. The partial blue stripes visible on the roof are also suspect; I wonder if this might be the by-product of two wrecks. A smattering of “spare parts” of various color schemes are also included.
So there they are: A pair of cars that a younger version of myself would have gone nuts over. They’re in a bit rougher shape than they were back then, but then, so am I. And I have to admit, nostalgic as I feel towards them both, I’d probably be better off with model kits of them than the real thing. Still, it’s cool to know that they’re still out there, still broadly viable, and still more or less affordable. I’d have a hard time choosing, but I don’t have to – you do.
Oh, and by the way, a quick programming note: due to some discussions on Discord, I’m going to try going back to the original Friday formula tomorrow, and have a run-off between the week’s four winners. So choose wisely today – whatever wins, you’re gonna see it again.
(Image credits: Craigslist sellers)
Don’t Dodge it, Fix It Again, Tony!
I HAVE BEEN SUMMONED.
The Turbo I (silver airbox, non-intercooled) produces 147HP and 174ft/lbs in stock trim; this increases to 174HP and 195ft/lbs with the DC/MP LM which increases boost from 7psi to 14psi.
The Turbo II (black 3-way airbox, intercooled) produces 174HP and 174ft/lbs in stock trim; don’t bet on this one having the hard to find MP Stage I LM.
The Turbo I to Turbo II conversion is not a small thing. They have very different wiring harnesses, and the transmission matters as well. An ’85 would have shipped with an A525 which cannot take a TII long-term without the impossible to obtain DC hardened gearset. (I know it’s impossible to obtain since 2000. Because I bought all the remaining stock.) Or a very expensive, very hard to come by build.
Seller is including a spare A523 because you’ll need it. They left the A525 in it. This build will grenade the carrier bearings and break the selector shaft at 3rd. The A523 can’t take it either, contrary to popular belief. If it could, the A520 and A555 would not have drastically different internals. And the A520 can’t take it long-term either.
The quality of the work is also paramount. A badly installed TII is itself a time bomb. Well executed TII conversions are rare, despite what the ‘Turbo Dodge community’ claims. (If it was well executed, you wouldn’t be popping MLS head gaskets and leaning out, kiddos. It isn’t that damn hard.)
And this one? This one is a typical shadetree hackjob. Wrong radiator. Kinked plumbing at best (look at the throttle body.) I shudder to think what the wiring looks like. Would not surprise me to find a self-tapping screw in the wastegate line and a blown head gasket.
“There was a swirl of gray-blue smoke, a flash and a “BANG” as if from a backfiring exhaust, and then he was there. rootwyrm had been SUMMONED!”
A horrible car, but I truly admire your knowledge and your generosity to share it. A blue-blooded Autopian, you.
The L-bodies are objectively inferior to the G-bodies in most regards, that’s just a point of fact. But they’re actually dangerously competent cars. They can’t touch a properly setup G on the road course or autocross.
But Chrysler won FOUR national SCCA ProRally championships with these Chargers using nothing that wasn’t straight out of the Direct Connection catalog.
This is glorious. I have a special respect for anybody who dives this deep, who commits this fully.
The Challenger has a cooler name. The X1/9 sounds like an algebra problem, but I’m a geek who likes math, so I’ll go with the Fiat.
Challenger, Scmallenger. The X/19 name sounds like a spaceship, and if you stuck some fins and lasers where the wheels go, it would look like it ought to be shot out of a launch tube from Babylon 5 or Battlestar Galactica.
But Challenger was an actual spaceship…
(You’re not wrong, though, and I picked the Colonial Viper X1/9, too)
That “spaceship” Challenger suffered from some quality problems too…
X1/9 is either an algebra problem or a top contender for the name of Elon Musk’s next kid.
The Challenger does have a cooler name, but it’s not in the Showdown: this is a Charger. 🙂
So far the Challenger name has been applied only to the original E-bodies and to the modern two-door equivalent. That’s good.
The Charger name, unfortunately, has been applied to these FWD 4-cylinder crapcans and to a four-door whatever. I am slightly bitter about this.
Aren’t you forgetting something?
No louvers on the rear side windows of the example at the link, though. Did they remove them later in the Challenger’s run, or did the photographer confuse that with the badge-engineered and louver-deengineered Plymouth Sapporo, which looked like it carried the micro-personal luxury coupe theme a little better?
If the ad doesn’t say whether the car runs, why would you assume it does? I’d assume it doesn’t. I guess I’d go with the Fiat too.
Huh, I went to the Shelby museum in Vegas like 10 years ago before they moved and as the former owner of two different Omni GLHs I was stoked to see an Omni GLHS in the museum. Bummer that’s not the case anymore.
I know the fiat started out as unreliable crap, but a turbododge in that questionable kind of condition isn’t going to be any better if it even runs at all.
Really surprised at the results so far, those fiats are so terribly engineered and designed that they’re always cheap because they’re always broken.
The Shelby Charger OTOH, well, say what you want about the car, but the powerplant is great! I’ve driven a couple GLH cars and they friggin scoot, boys!
“Really surprised at the results so far, those fiats are so terribly engineered and designed that they’re always cheap because they’re always broken”
Mine wasn’t. Fuel injection and electronic ignition made a world of difference on the later ones.
Plus rust isn’t a thing where I live.
I think the Fiat is going to run away with this. It’s a manual, mid engine, RWD, Italian sports car with a roof that comes off for fuck it money. Yeah, I know it’ll have a bunch of issues, but that’s half the fun with owning an old sports car. I think this would make for a wonderful weekend/project car for someone who’s good with a wrench or has enough disposable income that they don’t mind helping their local mechanic who specializes in Italian stuff put his or her kids through college.
That being said, I do think the Shelby Charger is kind of neat and I’ve always liked the concept of a light or light-ish weight coupe with an over strung 4 popper. The SVO Mustang from this era is cool as hell and I came very close to buying an HPP S550 a few years ago. I maintain that that was a cool car that didn’t get enough love.
Anyway, you can beat the crap out of it on track then get 30 MPG cruising on your way home. I think that’s neat and the weight savings/handling benefits over using a bigger engine can be pretty significant. Either way…fun picks today!
I’m voting for the X1/9. Always loved the design of these cars and they are an absolute hoot to drive. Fast? Only in your imagination. Put a curve in its path, though, and it will outquick most anything. And the top comes off! Just don’t open a Coke around it because you know what that does to rust.
If I’m going buy an unreliable ’80s performance car, I at least want it to have some flair. Voted Fiat.
What are the chances that rusty old turbo even spins? Fiat please.
X
Mark it Fiat, Dude.
I really liked both of these as a young’un myself as well. The mismatches of the Charger give the edge to the X1/9 today.
This is easy for me.
I was 16 when that Charger was for sale and lived less than twenty blocks away from Chrysler World Headquarters.
I’ll take that Charger all day.
At my HS job fast-food joint in the early 90s co-workers owned both of these cars in similar shape. The Shelby was the dork who insisted it and he was cool. The X1/9 was owned by the player dude that got more girls than any fast food worker should. So obvious winner.
Fiat wins the race! I would say that the Shelby has been put together with bits and pieces from many donor cars when I look at it and who knows if they have done the proper running of a turbo from that era with giving it a chance to cool down when done.
The Fiat reminds me of my post surgery car (Alfa Romeo Spider) that I got running but got so many tickets parking it on the street due to my driveway being high enough to rip off the exhaust that it was better to get rid of it than fight the tickets (in my county you have to move a vehicle every 72 hours and I was an easy ticket for parking enforcement to fill the quota every week).
I wonder if you are 6′ if you will fit in the car without extra work?
Cars like these I treat like I’m buying the seller as much as the car. I voted Dodge, not because it’s the car I’d rather have, but the seller I’d rather deal with. The X1/9 listing is rubbing me in all the wrong ways, and it seems to need about 3-4k in parts and labor to be worth about 9-10k, assuming the rust is truly not that bad beyond whats seen. The charger on the other hand, well, it’s crap, but appropriately priced given the decent amount of extra parts included and Turbo II swap.
Of these two which would look cooler broken down on the side of I-10 between Hankamer and Anahuac? When both are actually running which will be more fun to drive?
Fiat on both counts.
Take the Dodge here, don’t want the “pleasure” of a Fiat.
My Internet money goes to the X1/9. My best friend had one back in high school. That thing was a hoot to drive.
I had a Dodge Daytona Turbo. It was an utter POS in terms of quality, design, drivability, and reliability. The X1/9 looks like a major headache but it’s rare, exotic, and cool.
I had a non-turbo Daytona and, like yours, it was a POS in all major respects.
In my unbiased opinion, the Fiat looks like a good time.
I had a ’84 Turbo 5 speed. My first brand new car. What a POS! constantly broke down in the worst places. Mid Town Tunnel, Montauk Point, Middle of no where North Carolina. Finally I was sitting at a light in neutral and the trans exploded. My mechanic took it off my hands to rebuild for his daughter and gave me his ’65 Galaxy convertible in exchange. Best car deal I ever had!
When I was eleven years old, a family friend shopping for cars took me on a test drive in an X1/9. I was instantly smitten, and I still am. We’ll take the Fiat.
“But the thing I’ve been noticing is that as I get older, the “kind of lame” cars are the ones I actually crave. Maybe it’s just a natural result of aging to the point where I don’t give a shit what anyone thinks of what I drive, or maybe it’s because most new cars are just so damn boring that a silly throwback is an enticing alternative. These two were both cars I thought were the coolest things on the road when I was in junior high. Thirty-year-old me wouldn’t have been caught dead in them, but fifty-year-old me thinks maybe twelve-year-old me was on to something.”
This is me, almost 100% the same. Which is why I own both a Yugo and a ’77 Porsche 924, the slowest, least desirable Porsche of all time. Don’t get me wrong, I still have other allegedly “cooler” vehicles, but what I come to find out as I get older is that sometimes the more interesting cars are the ones you form a better relationship with. Both the Yugo and the 924 have character in spades, and getting to know and understand them better makes the ownership experience pretty rewarding.
I think when you get to a certain age maybe also you realize that you really don’t care whether someone else’s car makes more power than yours. There’s always a bigger fish out there somewhere.
As far as these two, I have to go with the Fiat, because why the hell not a Fiat, plus the engine drives the rear wheels as nature intended for sporty cars, and also you can say you own a genuine Gandini creation. However, I’ve only sat in one X1/9 in my life and when I did I came to realize that Gandini didn’t anticipate fellas 6’4″ sitting in his car, and the back of my head hits the targa bar. I’m fairly sure that I wouldn’t be able to get into the car at all with the top in place. In spite of this, I still want one, this is how stupid I am.
There are usually tall guy modifications, lowered seats and the like. You’ll be fine haha
See, this is the kind of optimism I need in my car life!
haha I have seen a 6′ 6″ guy fold himself out of an Elise. I don’t recall the mods he made, but he managed to get a car that stock felt perfectly designed for a 5′ 9″ guy, and make it comfortable, or at least doable for him.
Can’t a fellow also stuff a fiat Uno turbo engine into these without too much trouble? Then you can snap oversteer into a tree clad in Gandini-styled metalwork! La Bella figura!
molto bello!
As a fellow old transaxle Porsche owner… I’m still amazed how low that car is to the ground compared to… pretty much everything. It took me a while to learn that, unlike my Outback, my legs are _not_ the first thing that has to go into the car. (Fall in, butt first).
I’ll take the Fiat, please…
I’ll rotate cars in and out of the fourth garage stall, where the truck usually sits, and when the Porsche is in there it’s amazing how small it is!
Also, I am in the same boat, 12 year old me had very strange taste, and I went through a phase where I hated it, but now at 35 I am heading right back there. Looking for a Rav4 convertible currently.
Go for it. I pass one every day and they are neat looking little things.
https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.3275594,-79.8937572,3a,75y,8.07h,85.76t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sNcv8wZ-WL4FrNIwGq7Lmhw!2e0!5s20230501T000000!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
Oh I plan to! trouble is finding one. I have only managed to find one for sale in the states, and it’s rusty and the guy won’t answer me about how bad it is or send pics so that answers that question. Gotta sell one of my other cars then I’ll start looking more aggressively, and I will likely end up grabbing one from Japan.
Easy choice for me again here, while the Dodge would be fun, I have little desire for a FWD sports car. Fiat all the way. Even with the dubious reputation for reliability, and their amazing ability to “add lightness” by rusting even in California.