Ever have a situation go so far sideways that you can’t even be mad anymore? One of those moments where you just kinda let it go to see how deep of a hole the other party will dig, as you sit back with a cocktail bemused by the whole experience? One hundred and nine days, two dealerships, and three engine removals later, my 2013 Porsche Cayenne Diesel’s oil leak has been properly repaired.
Hopefully.
Pour yourself some tea because mine is piping.
Before we dig in, I oughta introduce myself. I run a growing community for LGBTQ car enthusiasts and went to college a few hours from your esteemed Editor-in-Chief. I taught him how to work on his first XJ Cherokee when we replaced the valve cover gasket in my college townhouse’s parking lot, next to my spray-painted BMW E30 leaking a concerning amount of everything. So, in a way, technically, all of this is my fault.
Cue Taylor. “It’s me, hi, I’m the problem, it’s me.” You’re all welcome and I’m sorry, maybe.
Anyway. Leaks. Porsche.
The 2011 to 2016 Porsche Cayenne Diesel fell victim to the Volkswagen Group’s “Dieselgate” scandal; its Audi-sourced 3.0-liter TDI V6 was not emissions-compliant. The United States got Volkswagen ID.4s with touch-everything and Electrify America stations that may or may not work, and Cayenne Diesel owners got reflashed ECUs and the Mother Of All Warranties.
I bought one of these magical law-flouting diesel machines in June of 2021, having sold my Ram 1500 for more than I paid in an insane market. The small dealership in Philadelphia didn’t know why everyone was frantically calling about their Porsche that sounded like a school bus, but I called first and put down a deposit over the phone. A quick Amtrak ride and the 67,000 mile, one-owner Cayenne was mine.
This Dieselgate warranty is hilarious because it covers everything that matters – the fuel system, the emissions gear, and the entire long block. It is common knowledge that when the lower timing cover of the 3.0 TDI starts leaking oil, your VW, Audi or Porsche dealer will remove the front subframe and completely re-seal the block. And it’s free. Better yet, if they try to give you trouble, you just point to the warranty booklet. “All disputes are to be settled in favor of the consumer.”
My 2013 Cayenne had about 18 months of warranty remaining when I brought it home; the coverage is good for 10 years or 100,000 miles from the date of the first sale. In my case, that meant everything had to go wrong by December 21, 2022, and I was never going to hit the mileage cap. Game on, let’s break this thing. Nicely.
It’s worth mentioning that I absolutely adore this Cayenne, and have from day one. I’ve had it lightly airborne around Summit Point’s Shenandoah Circuit, I tow a 20’ racecar trailer with it, and it’s equally competent in both scenarios. And it’ll do 33 miles per gallon on the highway otherwise.
I’m privileged that part of this Out Motorsports endeavor led to my reviewing new cars on a mostly weekly basis, so I can get around in something new when I need to. I also live in Washington, D.C., which offers many convenient and exciting ways to get around sans car, like walking, or taking the Metro if the Metro is not actively on fire. I also realize many car owners do not have those three things going for them when their vehicle is in the shop. Keep that in mind. Here we go.
I first noticed oil on the ground in late February of 2022. I called Porsche Arlington, the closest dealer to my apartment, and brought the car to them because I got a rockstar of a service advisor who knew about the Dieselgate warranty before I mentioned it. She saw me and the Cayenne through about a month of downtime as the engine was removed, over $7,500 of new parts were installed—they do not want to see this thing a second time—and I took the car back “fixed.”
While the Cayenne was being repaired the first time, I declined their loaner car but eventually needed a tow vehicle to go racing for one weekend. Porsche Arlington didn’t have any Cayennes properly equipped, so they offered to set me up with an Infiniti QX80 from Enterprise.
Months later, I noticed an exhaust smell that lead to a flashing glow plug light, check engine light and limp mode. I called Porsche Arlington for an appointment and was surprised to hear that my Superwoman advisor was no longer employed there. Neither was the other advisor I’d found helpful. It was a whole new team. Odd. I made an appointment for two days later, was told a loaner car would be ready for me, and thought nothing of it.
This is where this all gets… fun.
I limp-moded to Porsche Arlington and met my new service advisor, who was nice enough but knew precisely nothing about automobiles. She promised the shop foreman would call to get more details as all she could write down was “Check Engine Light” and was immediately lost when I mentioned glow plugs. Ooookay. What about that loaner? “Oh, uh, we don’t have any today.” There was no Enterprise offer, just a Lyft ride home in a smelly Camry.
A few days went by and no shop foreman—or anyone—called me. I called several times on my own and always got the “I’ll call you back” line. I had travel plans, I was driving other cars, and I was working my day job. Time passed quicker than I realized until I finally counted the days and figured 16 of them had passed with no updates or returned calls. I hopped in the Ford F-150 Lightning I was reviewing and drove to the dealership. Things get done when you show up in person. Sort of.
The update? My EGR cooler had gone bad and was replaced. When the foreman moved the Cayenne for its test drive, he noticed oil on the ground and realized the prior engine-out reseal hadn’t fully sealed. The engine needed to come out again. Okay, let’s do it.
Another week went by and I still had no loaner (not a huge deal) and no updates beyond “we’re pulling the engine probably” (more of a huge deal). No timeline for repairs and nobody would answer my calls when I tried to find out where my car was. Finally, I called and told the receptionist to have the car out front at 5 p.m. in whatever state of repair and I was coming to take it back. Things get done when you stand your ground. Sort of.
The shop foreman finally called me, basically begging me to give them a second chance to seal this engine. I acquiesced, for some reason, and he promised that he would be doing the work. There were no white, base-model Macan loaners available, but he fished a 2021 Honda CR-V out of somewhere and I drove that home.
Thirty-seven days later, having been promised the diesel-expert-foreman did the work and “a 100-mile extended test drive” had been completed, I got the Cayenne back from the second re-seal attempt. “Got back” was a journey all its own, as nobody could produce paperwork and the foreman texted me 90 minutes after I got the car home saying “it’s almost ready, just needs a wash first.”
I immediately took the Cayenne to visit my parents for Thanksgiving and parked on the fresh concrete driveway attached to their brand-new home a few hundred miles from D.C.
The following morning, I woke up and noticed a spot under the Cayenne when I looked out the window. Maybe it’s a shadow. It can’t be… oh fuck, it can be and it is.
It was still leaking.
I moved the Cayenne to the street, where my mom worried about it being hit by an errant dump truck in their new-construction neighborhood (my response: “If they don’t total it they better hit it harder a second time”) and my dad helped me scrub 10W-30 out of their new driveway using Dawn and a stiff brush.
Fairly upset, I texted the foreman, who confirmed leadership made the original technician re-repair his bad repair. I then called another Porsche dealer that was on the way home from my parents’ house. I figured the stars might align and I could drop the car off on the way home, throw my stuff in a white base-model Macan and keep driving. There were, of course, no appointments available. When I mentioned Porsche Arlington, the service advisor stumbled and said, “well uh, we’re so busy because we have our normal clients and we’ve been dealing with a lot of re-work from Arlington, I’m really sorry.”
Noted.
My next call was to 1-800-PORSCHE, the publicly-facing customer care line. They opened a case, though ultimately I was told there wasn’t much they could do if Porsche Arlington wouldn’t return their calls, as they hadn’t returned mine. At the same time, I took the Cayenne to Porsche Chantilly, where this service advisor understood my issue, the warranty program, and knew he could have the car as long as he needed if he’d just communicate with me about the process.
Chantilly called after a day or two and confirmed the TDI V6 was leaking from the rear main seal after a visual inspection. They needed to drop the engine to totally make sure, but either way, this leaking seal would not be covered by any warranty because it was a “workmanship defect” from the other dealer’s shoddy work.
I get it, dealers are franchises and one can’t pay for the other’s bad job. But I just do not care. When one dealer service department can’t be trusted and can’t communicate, the last thing they deserve is a third attempt to fix the same problem. I hung up with Chantilly and made another call, a call that again relies on a privilege most owners will not have. I called one of my contacts at Porsche and asked what my options were when every publicly-facing option was looking to me to pay for a dealer’s severe mistake.
She put me in touch with a different team, who’s more of a “customer retention” department. My new best friend is Linda, who set the example for how every service-related communication should be handled. She was prompt, she listened, she made good on promises to call back… easy stuff, that somehow got ignored by an entire dealership team.
Linda handled the logistics of who-pays-for-what between Arlington and Chantilly. My Chantilly service advisor was told by his general manager to “just get it done” and not invoice me for a thing.
One hundred and nine days after I first saw oil on the ground from a common, warranty-covered leak, I took a Lyft ride to Porsche Chantilly to retrieve my repaired Cayenne. Despite all of this debauchery, I still somehow adore this happy-frog-looking crossover. It is a phenomenal vehicle, and I put up with this whole disaster of an experience because a working Cayenne is really that good. And, I understand the relationship between an automaker and their dealers.
Most owners, though? The owners who bought a $150,000 Cayenne brand-new? They’d have gone to a Mercedes-Benz or BMW dealership after the second botched repair, thrown their keys at a salesperson, and left in a new GLE or X5. They’d swear off Porsche-the-brand for life and be detractors to everyone who’d listen. They don’t know or care that the dealerships aren’t owned by Porsche corporate. It says Porsche on the building, so they must all be the same.
I asked Porsche for comment on where customers should turn when their 1-800 helpline also hits a dead end, and if Porsche North America will step in to help remediate a poorly-performing service department. Responses had not been provided at the time of publication.
Ultimately, this a problem that any automaker can face. Aside from a house, your car is one of the most expensive things you’ll purchase in your lifetime. And the owner of any brand, from Mitsubishi to McLaren, deserves the same basic communication when it comes to repairs. Me pulling the journalist card is not how this should’ve ended—again, very few people will have that in their deck at all.
Hindsight is always perfect. But in hindsight, I should’ve never left the Cayenne at Porsche Arlington the second time. The entire team of service advisors being new all at once was a sign that I ignored, despite having that gut feeling of “this isn’t normal.” I pushed through it because of the dealership’s close proximity to my home. Giving up for the day, limp-moding home, and calling other dealers would have likely resulted in a proper second repair and far less frustration.
One of life’s greatest mysteries is why German cars, without fail, always leak at least one fluid and usually all of them, but peek under a 30 year old neglected Corolla and it’s bone dry.
When I was in my early 20s I ended up in credit card debt because I took my GTI back to a dealer for a 2nd and 3rd visit for the same issue. They didn’t properly diagnose the problem and replaced my instrument cluster that had died. 2 weeks later it died again. On the third visit they “discovered” an electrical issue that was shorting out the cluster. So 3 $700+ charges in a row when they should have fixed it the first time. It took me a year to dig out of that hole.
I’ve owned one Porsche–a ’99 Boxster that had 66K on it when I bought it last year. With all the worry about the IMS, I immediately went ahead and had it done and put a new clutch on it while the engine was out. Within the first 500 mi, a head cracked. I sourced a 35K mile motor, put it in, and crossed my fingers. Now I’m married to this thing because I have so much dough invested. But despite the nightmare it put me through, I fucking love the car and I will drive it on nice days until it dies. I can’t think of another car I’ve oned that was such a pleasure to drive that I’d stick around for round two after an ass kicking like that. It sits in a barn full of old SAABs, making thedm all look shabby, but I love it just as much as any of the Swedes.
“But either way, this leaking seal would not be covered by any warranty because it was a “workmanship defect” from the other dealer’s shoddy work.”
This is when I would’ve gone DEFCON 4. I get it, I understand, but just the idea of hearing this after your ordeal would have me seeing red.
*you mean Defcon 1. The lower the number the more severe the threat, 5 being the lowest, 1 being the highest.
Ha! Thanks! I literally thought about that and settled in my head on “higher being bad.”
Yes, definitely meant DEFCON 1. Launch the missiles!
That’s about how it went. The phrase “this is simply not MY problem or financial burden and I don’t especially care whose it is” was repeated a few times.
Great to see Jake join the kiki here!
This won’t be the last you see of me 🙂
Had a similar journey with Porsche re a Boxster S a few years back, including the overnight change in service advisor staff. Long story short, after a bunch of problems from this brand new vehicle, the shifter disconnected from the transmission in traffic. Just had a flopping stick that did nothing and luckily was able to stop safely and get towed. The service advisor on that occasion said, “Oh we see this all the time.” Right; when I got it back I took it to the Ford dealer a few blocks away and got a Raptor. Never again, Porsche.
I hope you went on https://www.dealerrater.com and left appropriate feedback for Arlington Porsche. A dealer will actually care if you leave them negative feedback here.
Porsche Arlington is right around the corner from my house, but this article validates my belief that it’s worth the trip to Tyson’s or Chantilly for anything important.
Like a bad restaurant with a riverfront view, Porsche Arlington (nee Heishmans) seems to rely entirely on location, location, location.
It’s so sad that this is a near universal rule in the States, because in Italy or France the quality of the food generally increases along with the quality of the view and location. Prices, do, too…
Jake welcome to the Autopian team! Nice photo of the Cayenne in Blagden Alley (DC people will know).
Oof! That’s rough. I understand, as I went through a lesser version of this a long time ago with my Sentra SE-R. I got it new from Hickman Nissan in Atlanta in May 1993. Somewhere in its first few years I started hearing what sounded like a bearing noise from the transmission. It was under warranty, and at this point despite being a Georgia Tech student I was taking it to the dealer for oil changes. So I took it to them and asked them to look in to it. They said yep, it’s coming from the gearbox, we’ll figure it out. So I got a ride back to school from my dad, out came the gearbox and they replaced something. Got it back…no change. Took it back again got a ride from my dad again, and the second time they replaced, I dunno, the main shaft bearings but not the layshaft bearings. Got it back and on the way home I was hearing a metal-scraping sound from my front brakes, which turned out to be a splash shield that was bent and hitting the inner rotor face. Also, the noise was still there. Took it back *again*, and I insisted they were going to give me a loaner since this was the third trip for the same problem. They said no, so I walked into the showroom and started explaining my problem to the front desk in a louder-than-conversational voice and asked to speak to the general manager. This got me a loaner car quickly. They took the gearbox out *again*, straightened the splash shield and replaced the rotor. Got the car back, and finally it was quiet. Nothing ever went wrong with the car functionally, but I didn’t want to find out 30,000 miles later about a problem that started when I could have gotten it fixed under warranty. But it did disabuse me of the habit of taking my car to the dealer for work, and I started doing maintenance myself. It was this that was truly the beginning of my own wrenching. I certainly never held it against the car – only the dealer – but in retrospect I’m glad for it having pushed me to learn to DIY.
JFC.Get out while the gettin’s good.
Cool meeting you last Friday night at that fake Irish pub. I’m the Volvo 240 guy.
Great meeting you too! Small world 🙂
These 3.0 TDI motors I think were designed by a bunch of German chipmunk engineers. Let me tell you how I know. Last year I bought a well cared for, high mileage, fully depreciated Audi Q7 and it has this exact engine. It has some early signs of the rear seal leak like this Cayenne. By the way, the engines are manufactured by Audi and sent to Hungary to be installed in this platform. The bigger problem is in the center of the V between the banks of cylinders. Inside here is a cauldron of issues that happen. Mostly it is a cauldron of oil and coolant that has no place to escape as they mix together and evaporate into a sludge between the cylinder banks. Bolted to the block in this space is the oil cooler. Only, for some reason, they decided to put an interface plate between the block and it with some overly complex and cheesy gaskets. Just to make access to this abomination more difficult, they decided to mount the EGR cooler over the top of this mess. That is not all, the intake manifold is mounted over the top of all this and it is blocked by cables, vacuum lines, fuel lines and so many stupid things keeping it from lifting straight out!
The oil cooler (and the rear seal) are only two possible leak points. The other is the oil filter housing assembly. This piece of engineering excellence, sealed with another bizarre looking gasket also happens to have the coolant thermostat built into the same piece of plastic with three sensors screwed into it. By the way, this engine has an oil thermostat. Yes, you hear that right, and oil thermostat. It would have almost made sense if they placed it in the oil filter housing. No, instead they put it, get this, next to the coolant pump. WTF!
In comparison to David Tracy’s Golden Eagle, his engine is like working on a lawn mower engine in comparison to this steaming pile to work on. To Audi’s credit, these engines are mostly trouble free for at least the first 120K or so if you maintain them well like the one I picked up. They also are range all stars with 600 plus miles out of a tank of fuel. What will really kill you is if work needs to be done on them is the labor cost. It takes hours and hours of time to untangle the mess of components and how they were haphazardly put together by committee to fix them. The parts cost is almost insignificant by comparison.
From a dealership perspective as a Tech and a Service Advisor. This is NOT A DESIRABLE repair. 1) Higher mileage vehicles = more repair risk 2) Warranty repairs pays well than customer pay repair 3) There are many components & connections to be removed and replaced which furthert increases risk For a Service Advisor and a Tech its all about billable hours. Warranty limits the billable hours, and increases the billing scrutiny. Most shops are understaffed and overbooked. As a result the more desirable work goes to the techs with most seniority and training. This work goes to the techs lower on the totem pole. That’s the dealership reality.
JohnBurke, I appreciate your field service perspective and completely see your point. The liability is enormous on this job and could be for many others from what I have seen on this platform. Understaffed and overbooked shops just adds to the problem. As a business, the money needs to keep flowing to keep the lights on. Hence the billable hours. Service of the business relies on happy customers, some of which will never be that way under any circumstances. There is a broad spectrum of other types.
The amount of hours I spent repairing the actual problem was significant. One thing a dealer franchise or independent garage would NOT do is many of the other “while I am in there, may-as-well do this because it will soon break” items. My car was laid up for a month going through everything and I did not have a queue of cars backed up to fix behind it. Having not done any of this work before also slowed the process down quite a bit.
I suspect (ease of) maintainability is not captured in the design at a high level from any company that sells things unless all their competitors start to. They want to keep selling new ones. It sucks for some owners. The ones who want to hang onto their cars for any reason. They are the ones who have to deal with this on a basis of personal feasibility.
During 2022 Porsche Arlington had my ’87 Carrera for more than 5 months without giving me a written estimate. I was then called and told to move my (non-running) car immediately, as they had construction to do. My experience with service advisors, multiple, has been considerably different than yours.
I once rode in the back seat of a base model Cayenne (that had coils, no air suspension) with hardly any miles that was bought brand new from London to Le Mans France and back to London and on the smoothest toll roads France has to offer I still though I was going to piss blood from how harsh the ride was.
I’d never buy a Cayenne after that.
Mine is incredibly stiff and it’s a pretty lousy city car, to be honest. But I think that’s part of why it can tow so well and handle reasonably on back roads. I have a steel spring model without PASM… the PASM/Air cars may be different.
Being local to the DC Metro area and also owning a Porsche out-of-warranty, insert: bold_strategy_cotton.gif, I’m curious how your future adventures will go!
Hope you have an independent repair shop lined up!
Girl I need one. If there’s a shop you recommend I am all ears. I only went to the dealer for all of this because of the warranty coverage… otherwise, indie or DIY. Chantilly quoted me for new transmission and diff/transfer case fluids (at my request) and… lolol
Auto Therapy in Gaithersburg, MD, it’s a Father/Daughter team and they race 911’s (not sure which generations off the top of my head). I took my Macan there for a brake fluid change, mostly labor ~150/hr, which to me sounds about right for the area, maybe a little high but they specialize in Porsches.
GT Peace in Chantilly and Intersport in Ashburn both have good reputations from what I gather. This is second hand though.
i had a great experience at gt peace when i lived in reston. if they can sort you out, id recommend them. i have an old 4runner though, not a porsche, so ymmv.
Auto Centro in Rockville! I bought my 997 there, and two S4s, and a Jetta, and about five other cars. My family has been going to Paulo pretty much my whole life. They know their stuff when it comes to VAG, Porsche, Ferrari, and Lamborghini.
Ah one more thing, I would check the Rennlist forum to start as well to hunt down solutions if you’re having more issues.
Out of curiosity, I got a similar quote for my Macan PDK, on the order of 20k for a transmission which is insane on a small/mid SUV (that’s worth about 25 – 30k now). The online manual for the PDK is mainly the mechatronics unit which comes out w/o removing the transmission, sorta like a valve body in a torque converter/clutch/planetary gear automatic. Most of the issues are the o-ring seals or a solenoid wearing out from what I gather. A very straightforward repair, but the issue is Porsche doesn’t want to deal with it and does not want to support those parts… ever. So they would rather drop in a whole new gearbox/PDK unit instead. The Rennlist forum has been my friend for hunting down issues and looking for repair options as well.
Holy Mercedes Streeter that’s a lot of Cayenne/Tuareg platform repair work.
Stuff like this and my in-laws’ Audi Q3 saga make me glad I drive a plebeian Mazda CX-5 that has never needed a repair and an old pickup I can fix in my driveway.
Even powerful, politically connected pipeline operators get fined for leaking that much.
My wife and I had a similar issue with her 2013 Cayenne and Dieselgate a few years ago.
She was super on top of it, and was the very first person to take her car into Porsche DTLA for the emissions fix. I guess that was early enough along that they didn’t have the process down, and they somehow didn’t manage to file the right paperwork, so there was no record of the work having been done. That kicked off a three year long effort to try and get the promised compensation (no check without proof of work), in which both the dealer and PNA’s service staff repeatedly dropped the ball and were rude to her. One PNA rep even cussed at her over the phone. And this was even after using my name and contacts to try and find help.
She got so fed up with the ordeal that driving the thing became unenjoyable, and we couldn’t sell it until we had all the Dieselgate paperwork completed, so it just sat in our garage for two years. Once everything was resolved, I had to remove the driver’s seat, cut a hole in the carpet, connect the car to an external power supply so it wouldn’t brick itself, and replace the dead battery. Drove it as far as the Toyota dealer, and put the keys on the salesman’s desk and told him it was his problem now. We would have taken $1 for it at that point, but IIRC they gave us $27k, despite an oval wheel, and a previous crash repair. Drove home in a new 200 series and swore we’ll never cast a shadow at another Porsche dealer again as long as we live. Fuck Porsche.
Wes Siler in the joint like the old times.
You know you’re on the right site when Wes and others provide free content…
I’ve been searching for a new (to me) vehicle recently and a diesel Cayenne or Touareg was one I was seriously considering. Sounds like I dodged a bullet. Given the cost of diesel and the fact that I have access to a Sequoia if I need to haul shit I opted to think small. We’ll see how the CPO Gti holds up in the long run.
The wild thing is that despite all of *waves hands frantically* this, I’m planning on keeping it for now. It’s phenomenal when incompetent shops aren’t touching it.
Crazy story that resonates with anyone who has had to deal with a sub-par service department. Thanks for sharing!
Absolutely not the same thing, but my shitbox with a catalytic converter CEL, it turns out, is covered under a special extended emissions warranty. After talking with a handful of people and making an appointment and heading to a dealership to spend a day drinking bad coffee and reading six-month old magazines about business or something else stupid, it turns out the warranty doesn’t count in my state. Could have been good to know ahead of time… So I’m on the hook for a $200 diagnostic that told me what I already knew. Yay! Service is fun.
I assume you are out of the 8 year/80k mile federal emissions warranty?
When I bought my 2012 MX-5 in 2019, it threw a CEL 100 miles into the 6 hour drive home. Fortunately I had about 5 months left before the 8 year mark and the local Mazda dealer replaced the catalytic converter. Sure would like to know what caused it to fail in 7.5 years and 60k miles, though.
Correct- it’s extended to 15 year/150k miles, but only in a handful of states.
My word, Darth Thiewes turned David to the dark rust side! I did not see that coming.
I guess my $700 BMW 325e leaking a bit of everything was parked too close and he caught something. And it wasn’t even rusty!
It blows my mind that dealerships get to plaster the manufacturer’s logo all over every visible surface but the manufacturer has no control over them other than restricting the number of cars they get.
My experience with car dealers service could be summarized by “there’s a 20% chance I won’t get the car more broken than when I left it”. As in just twice out of 9 (might be 10 or 11) times I had to go through a dealership (because warranty) I didn’t have to fix it myself, or have to fix something completely unrelated that THEY broke while attempting to fix the original problem.
So now I found a place that would let me rent lift time in their shop and I just do my own work. I don’t care about warranty, it’s not worth the time and aggravation, not to mention the constant anxiety of not knowing what some idiot did that would cause some catastrophic failure that would leave me stranded hundreds of miles from home.
I know it’s wishful thinking, but it would be great if we somehow got rid of the dealership franchise laws and have OEMs have a few showrooms and sell cars directly. If you need repairs there are plenty of independent shops that could get OEM endorsements to do warranty work. As this story proves, manufacturers don’t have the means to prevent dealership scumminess and incompetence anyway.
JAKE! Nice to see you here, man. I’m glad you finally got the car fixed. I had bought a Jetta TDI Sportwagen (brown, manual, of course!) with the mega CPO warranty in 2019, but then went on permanent work from home and sold it for a slight profit some 6 months later.
Hopefully this won’t be the last you see of me here! 😉 It’s a shame this repair process was such a cluster because I can’t say enough good about the driving experience of this car. Really unsure how long I’ll keep it, though it’s got these fresh repairs + new tires/brakes. It’s all fine until some other diesel component says “nein” one day…
I realize that any car *can* have serious issues like this, but damn does it just seem like no diesel vehicle smaller than a 3/4 ton truck is worth owning.
Both of the Hinos at work have been in for multiple $5000+ repairs, and they’re 2018 models with only about 50,000 miles on them, and built by Toyota to boot.
Turns out they’re also emissions cheaters, just like VWs.
Oh, and gas in my area is back around $3.00/gallon, but diesel is still around $5.50.
Fuck diesels.
So I really question what to do with this thing now that I have it back. It’s so wonderful to drive but I know another big diesel-related repair will happen eventually. EGR cooler is replaced now but there’s the whole DEF system, the high-pressure fuel pump, the injectors, etc that can also go boom in fun and expensive ways.
And every Cayenne is rated to pull the same weight (7,700 pounds) so swapping it for a Peridot Green GTS wouldn’t be like, the worst idea. Or I’ll buy something really dumb like a Viper and rent trucks as I need ’em.
You jest, but I can assure you in all seriousness that the TCO of a Viper is significantly lower than a diesel Porsche.
Viper. This is the answer. Then write about it please!
If you can find a Peridot Green GTS, obviously that’s the answer.
But it’s not really. As you correctly point out: they all tow 7700lbs. Not WK/WK2 class (where 7200lbs is “lol, not after I replace this shit ass cooling module it ain’t,”) but more than respectable.
But the true answer is the Cayenne S. “Wait, what?” The GTS has a whole 20 more horsepower in the 4.8, and a whole 30 more horsepower in the 3.6 version. But the Cayenne S was a “lease machine.” GTS generally was bought outright, so far more uncommon, and far higher resale. But thousands upon thousands of people leased the S. Which means well maintained CPO ones are cheap. Real cheap.
Cheaper than a Jeep Grand Cherokee cheap.
Compare: a 2016 Cayenne GTS in white over black (BLEH!!) with 60,000 miles asks $42k+. A 2016 S in white over black with 60,000 miles from a similarly shitty dealer asks $35k or less. And then you hit NPOP. (No, not NPOCP. National Pre-Owned Porsche. The finder.)
… hang on, I have to up the radius, otherwise I only get the shitty Penske dealer’s lease dumps.
2019 Cayenne S in Biscay Blue Metallic over black/beige, CPO, 25k miles, $67k. 2018 Cayenne GTS in Black over black with more black, twice the miles, 6 more horsepower? $69k.
Or, yanno, you could trade the diesel in on a Porsche CPO diesel and get a fresh 24 month warranty.
You could always sell it to me. My Touareg V10 TDI could use a sibling! Then again, that Cayenne probably has more value left in it than I’m willing to pay for. I like scraping the bottom of the depreciation barrel. lol
Mercedes, you like scraping the underside of the barrel that we hide David’s choices under. ;P
The Toyotas are WAY worse emissions cheaters than VW, by orders of magnitude. They lied about everything on those. And as you’ve found, they are absolute fucking pieces of shit and always have been.
One of my clients who hauls regularly enough to warrant it, bought a Hino 238 configured fifth wheel to pull a 45′. Which yes, meant buying new. Ya know why you don’t find nearly any 238’s on the market with miles? Because they’re all junk. Theirs ate two turbos, threw a rod, overheated constantly, and then burned the fuck down. Before the warranty ran out. It was pulling at max 15,000lbs GCWR.
The replacement, well, that’s a whole other story. Let’s just say some people – who for once, aren’t me – should not be allowed to own Cat 3208’s.
Oh please fill me in why should some people not be allowed to own Cat 3208’s? I wanna hear this story
Seriously. Those things can take a beating. I wanna hear this horror story
I always found diesels exciting, because they are a visceral memory (smells and sounds) of continental European vacations – I lived in Sweden, and diesels were nearly non-existent there. But in US traffic (stop-and-go, constant hard acceleration due to overuse of stop signs and stoplights and with no green wave management) diesels just don’t work.
I love chugging around in a diesel in Europe, where you can drive pretty far without leaving the upper gears as long as you are not in the most urban areas, but they just don’t suit our spastic driving environment.
If I did live somewhere empty, I would definitely get an old, low-tech diesel from Japan, like a Crown or a Laurel or an Avenir or somesuch. Unbreakable and very easy to repair if something should go wrong.
The heavy duty ones arent worth owning anymore unless you legitimately tow 10,000 lbs plus on a weekly or daily basis.
The cost of a Diesel on a new HD truck is 10-13k.
That buys right about 40-50 THOUSAND miles worth of gas.
The new Ram and Ford 6.4s and 6.2s will quite happily run 300,000 miles with hardly a fuss. Even then, if the engine blows you can replace the entire engine, fuel system, coils and plugs for less than what a set of INJECTORS cost on a diesel.
Top it off, the mpg difference between the two gets narrower every few years. Gas 3/4 tons will get 15-18mpg all day if driven modestly, and diesels your lucky to see 20-22.
They just dont make sense anymore.
Unless you HAVE to tow a crapton of stuff and those people are few and far between
Yes but how long before Ford puts out another 5.4 with popcorn spark plugs? And ignores everything saying nothing wrong here? Cost me several thousand in repairs and rental.
I have a 2018 Ram diesel and all of that is true. However, it has a stick shift so all is forgiven
Well my P38 Bread Truck with the GM 1500 DIESEL sucked so bad i had to dump it after 3 new motors from Jasper. Note Jasper at one time made good rebuilt motors. The 3rd generation running it now builds to last the warranty. Many dont make the warranty. DONT BUY A JASPER MOTOR.
No diesel made within the past 15-20 years, really