Good morning, and welcome to the middle of the week! Today’s challengers both share just a bit of DNA with everybody’s favorite bonkers race cars, the FIA Group B rally cars. But before we get to them, let’s see what you did with our two Canadian clunkers:
It’s the X-Trail by a country mile. Or country kilometer, because Canada. It’s not often a non-running car beats a running one, and I don’t think it’s ever happened by this wide of a margin. As it happens, I agree; the Mercedes is cool, but something about little 4x4s really appeals to me, so I’d prefer to revive the Nissan.
Now then: Chances are good that I don’t have to tell you what Group B was. For a few glorious years in the 1980s, rally racing featured some of the fastest, wildest, most dangerous machines around, until the speeds and the death toll both got too high to allow the madness to continue. Audi ushered in this era with their Quattro all-wheel-drive system, and won pretty much everything that Lancia and Peugeot didn’t. Mazda’s RX-7 Group B effort was only rear-wheel-drive, but it managed a few decent runs, and made quite a showing in IMSA sports car racing in the 1980s as well.
Our Audi featured today has the Quattro drivetrain, but lacks the fire-breathing turbocharged engine of its Group B sibling. And our RX-7 is, in fact, rotary-powered, which I felt I owed you after Friday’s LS swap. Let’s take a look.
1986 Audi 4000CS Quattro – $4,800
Engine/drivetrain: 2.2 liter overhead cam inline 5, five-speed manual, AWD
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Odometer reading: 179,000 miles
Runs/drives? Yep
I remember reading somewhere that to demonstrate the prototype Quattro’s capabilities, Audi engineers drove it up a ski slope. I tried to find confirmation of this tidbit for this article, but I couldn’t track it down again, and I can’t remember where I read it. So it will have to remain hearsay. It is a cool story, though. And the Quattro’s prowess on gravel and snow is legendary. The original Quattro was a two-door coupe, but starting in 1984 the system was made available on Audi’s small 80 sedan, sold as the 4000 in the US.
The original Quattro system used an open gear differential between the front and rear axles, instead of the Torsen diff or viscous coupling that’s more common these days. The center diff can be locked by a knob on the center console, visible in the photo above. Position 1 locks the center diff; position 2 also locks the rear diff, which means you pretty much have to high-center the entire car to get it stuck. Early Quattros were only available with five-speed manual transmissions.
Powering all this mechanical wizardry is Audi’s inline five, in this case naturally aspirated, and shoehorned into the 4000’s nose at an awkward angle. That’s the radiator sitting next to the engine. The seller says this five runs great, and just had a tune-up.
It’s largely rust-free, which is a rare treat for a 4000, and it’s stock, which is getting to be even rarer. These cars were cheap for a long time, and too many of them suffered absurd modifications at the hands of backyard mechanics who fancied themselves “tuners.” This is one of the nicest 4000 Quattros I’ve seen for sale in a while, and yes, I do keep an eye out for them. I’d love to have one of these.
1984 Mazda RX-7 – $4,200
Engine/drivetrain: 1.2 or 1.3 liter two-rotor Wankel, five-speed manual, RWD
Location: Sacramento, CA
Odometer reading: 200,000 miles
Runs/drives? Sure does
After years of experimenting with rotaries in family cars, pickup trucks, and even a bus, Mazda finally figured out that the little spinning triangles truly belonged in sports cars. The RX-7 was introduced in 1978, and it was a big hit, especially here in the US. I can’t tell exactly which model this is; I’m sure some eagle-eyed readers will be able to tell, but I believe this one has either a carbureted 12A (GS or GSL model) or fuel-injected 13B (GSL-SE model) rotary engine.
This is another terse ad; all we’re told is that it runs well, and has new tires and current tags. It’s in decent cosmetic shape, with a little peeling clearcoat and some minor dings. The inside looks nice, but the stereo is missing. All the better to hear that rotary soundtrack, I suppose.
These early RX-7s were cheap for a long time as well, but are starting to attract some collector attention. This one feels a little expensive to me, but maybe that’s just because I remember when they were $1500 all over the place. It does have a shit-ton of miles for a rotary, and who knows how well it has been cared for? If you aren’t familiar with the ins and outs of rotaries, as I am not, it might be best to find an expert to check it out.
I know some of you have been disappointed by the prices of some of our recent cars, but the simple fact is that “cheap” cars are getting more expensive. If I tried to stick to the original $2500 price cap, we’d be looking at a lot of crusty Malibus and clapped-out PT Cruisers. These two are both priced higher than I’d like to see, and probably higher than I’d be willing to pay, but they don’t seem too far out of line. Besides, it’s not like either of these is available in any old used car lot these days. If you want one, this is what they cost. So which one will it be?
(Image credits: Craigslist sellers)
Audi please, reminds me of my first car, it’s 1980 predecessor, modest 1.6l carburated engine. That ski jump video was quite the attention grabber. They were actually able to drive it up but had it secured to a winch and secondary security system akin to basically a spike that would pin the car into the ramp in case of emergency.
RX-7. I owned an ‘80 while living in Germany. Fat tires, free flow exhaust, little chin spoiler, awesome shifter, leaded gas – it was a real Bahn Burner. Loved taking it out fast on the twisties alongside the Rhine. And the sound of that rotary mill was pure music. Had an underground garage with plenty of reverb and when I fired that puppy up up, everyone knew who was leaving. Hummmm, indeed.
Pretty sure that’s a 12A RX-7.
Also: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/cFTFSJHH0Js
Here’s the original ski jump ad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgUzL6wrv5o
A mid-80s Quattro is going to carry so much more cachet at a cars & coffee around here (and we all know the approval of other is all that matters). Audi for me.
There is zero parts availability for that Audi. I had friend who had one, and it was just rusty enough that when he had a fender bender, he bought another one instead of trying to fix it. When he saw the price and availability of parts, he stripped the totaled car to the bone and filled his garden shed with quattro parts. We joked it was worth more dead than alive.
Body parts or mechanical parts? The later seem to be widely available, but I can see how the former wouldn’t.
I think just about anything “quattro driveline” related is NLA.
If that 4KQ is clean underneath, that’s a steal of a deal. If I was on the West Coast I would be headed over there right now to check it out.
The Audi for sure. I had an old coupe, sadly the 2wd version, but it was such a great car. When I first got it I asked my mechanic how many miles I should expect to get out of that 5 cylinder. He said “Nobody knows yet”. This was back in 1990, so I assume people now know, but I never had any issues with the engine, suspension, or transmission in that car. Everything else, yes. for example, the entire dashboard was held in place by gravity.
They’re both overpriced IMO. The RX-7 has scary mileage for a rotary, but the Audi also has a lot of miles on it and is sitting next to a dumpster. Is it really that hard to find a better place to take photos or something you want $4,800 for? The correct answer is neither. Since we don’t play the game that way though, I’ll live dangerously with the much more interesting Mazda.
All day the Audi. With a 5er and manual, that car is a highway beast, and if the weather gets bad, so what?
I love first-gen RX-7s. My MIL had one, and my wife learned to drive stick on it. But now, forty years on? Not so much. Those apex seals do not fix themselves.
And while I have a healthy fear of owning ANY German car, this one is old and common enough to be a lot more forgiving.
Here’s your Audi going up a ski jump: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25u80sQkkkM
Here’s the original:
https://youtu.be/faiFfBxhT8s
I had a non-quattro ’82 4000 in college. Always lusted after the quattro models. Easy pick for me. Audi all day.
Tough choice. But that RX-7 will handle so much better. I can’t believe I’m voting for the Dorito over a 5 cylinder.
I’m gonna rally rownd the Audi, fellas. Four down ‘n dirty.
As a former owner of a 84 GS, don’t be scared of the miles on the doritos, as long as you keep premium in it those n/a motors last a long time. Always vote 1st gen rx7!
Yep. I had a 200k mile 84 GS in Michigan. The engine ran like a top while the rest of the car denigrated to rust around it.
The Audi. I know someone that had one new and it was a blast. I see some rust fixes (DIY or body shop depending on the damage).
Insert ‘why not both’ memes, because I’ve always like both of these cars. (Distinctly different from most Shitbox Showdowns for me, where there’s usually a clear choice.)
But if I had to use my own money I’d buy the Audi. Which scares me, frankly, that I made this choice.
I believe the RX-7 is a GS. It has no rear wiper/washer or power windows, but does have a sunroof.
Forgot the important part – that means it is a 12A, only the GSL-SE had the 13B.
But it has aftermarket wheels which you could generally only get on the gsl-se because the lower models had a goofy bolt pattern. Wish it had an under hood pic or a better view of the badge.
It’s possible, maybe even likely, they switched to the GSL-SE hubs.
Possible, maybe even had hubs re-drilled. Also possible that the rear hatch got broke and they grabbed a glass off a lower model. Someone needs to check out this gem in person!
I am almost certain those are 14″ wheels that were originally only included on the 1983 RX-7 Limed Edition. I purchased a set of those to use on my own RX-7 GSL back when I owned one and looks like someone did for this car as well.
I think I see a choke pull on the left of the steering wheel.
I can’t believe I actually voted for an Audi over a Japanese car!
But in this case I had to because rotary engines suck! VW had it right when they phased out NSU for Audi. LOL
4 doors, AWD, and a regular engine as opposed to a silly wankel.
I was also surprised to see the non-running car beat the running car by that wide of a margin!
And a manual
I really wanted to make a Gene Hunt “Fire up the Quattro!” reference, but I have to go with “Zoom, zoom!” on this one.
Mark, you should try Florida for the search. All the old people from every other state comes down here to die, so there’s always something.
Kinda depends on if you are looking for something that is complete, though. I was trying to tempt my friends with stuff under $3k last night so I already had these ready.
’67 Falcon Wagon that’s kinda rough
https://tampa.craigslist.org/pnl/cto/d/saint-petersburg-1967-ford-falcon/7586679806.html
’68 Falcon that has no engine or trans
https://daytona.craigslist.org/cto/d/ormond-beach-68-ford-falcon/7589860991.html
’77 Fiat Spider
https://orlando.craigslist.org/cto/d/ormond-beach-1977-fiat-spider/7591013236.html
’00 Prelude, Manual trans, that’s been up for several months
https://treasure.craigslist.org/cto/d/vero-beach-2000-honda-prelude-90k-miles/7591357327.html
’91 Turbo Volvo Wagon
https://jacksonville.craigslist.org/cto/d/jacksonville-1991-volvo-740-turbo-wagon/7591940147.html
Hmm. A couple of those are too light on photos, but definitely some interesting stuff. I’ll investigate Florida a little more closely.
Damn.
Both, I think. Always wanted to tick the rotary ownership box -though would prefer a first-gen. And that Quattro looks to be in the sweet spot where it’s solid enough to beat on without being prohibitively pretty or expensive.
Guess I’ll have to vote for each on a different device
Save yourself some time. Just hit refresh on your browser.
Didn’t think I’d ever pick an old Audi with 150K+ miles on it over anything, but those Quattros are really cool, that particular one looks pretty nice, and I’d be leery of an old Wankel. Audi it is.
I have no interest in wankels. Audi for me!
Also Audi. Less than no interest in a spinning dorito.
I know Sacramento is a bit of a haul from LA, but PAGING DAVID TRACY!!!!
It’s only a six or seven hour drive, and open stretches of I-5 are great places to check out the top speed of your newly acquired RX-7!
Ps. It’s 128 mph. Don’t ask how I know.
Or make it a 8-9 hour drive along the coast for much more entertaining roads and better views. Although depending on the location in LA that could require an additional 2+ hours to get our of the city.
… I need it!
The Audi is neat for sure but I can’t turn down spinning Dorito power!