These days, you really have to hand it to Hyundai. Not only is it the real-life incarnation of the “Stop, stop, he’s already dead” meme from The Simpsons with how much it’s crushing every other automaker in the design department, it has very quickly and rather quietly emerged as a top contender in the electric vehicle world. It’s cliché as hell to remark how “far” Hyundai (and corporate cousin Kia, too) have come from the era of today’s Shitbox Showdown, but that doesn’t make it untrue. And one area where Hyundai keeps getting it right is EV range as well.
Last week, we got official EPA numbers for the new Hyundai Ioniq 6 and they are extremely impressive: 361 miles on a full tank of electrons. Even though it’s only by a few miles, that means Hyundai’s sedan can take down the Tesla Model 3 Long Range; that’s no easy feat. Say what you will about Elon Musk on any given day, but Tesla is still the electric automaker to beat. And at a time when many new EV offerings from so-called “legacy” automakers still feel tepid in the range department, Hyundai’s probably got a winner here.
But my mind keeps going back to what a good EV range 361 miles is. In fact, it’s excellent; much closer to the most recent median range for gasoline vehicles, which according to InsideEVs stands around 400 miles. (Remember, the greater selection of ICE vehicles out there, plus the fact that it’s a much more well-established technology, helps a lot there; on the flip side, most of us aren’t filling up our cars at home. Maybe you are if you live at an actual race track, or are an eccentric billionaire. You probably need the second thing to be true for the first thing to be, too.)
Anyway, this debate comes up all the time in the comments, but the Ioniq 6’s impressive-yet-pragmatic number makes me wonder this: What is the correct amount of EV range? I’d say 360 miles is pretty damn close to where you want to be without being excessive, and in fact, I think it could be held up as a kind of gold standard to aim for in the next few years.
Let’s assume a few things are true before we continue:
- EVs are meant to be charged at home, at the office or whenever they’re parked; they aren’t meant to be run down to near-zero before “filling up,” which will necessitate some behavior changes by drivers as EVs become more common.
- As noted above, you can’t fill up a gasoline car at your home, generally speaking.
- We’re talking about more or less conventional technology. Solid-state batteries promise better range, but they’re at least a decade away from being anything at all.
- It’s generally agreed that big, heavy, huge-range EV batteries aren’t great for the environment, both in terms of resources used for manufacturing and their overall electricity consumption.
- Smaller—or at least more reasonably sized—EVs are the ideal version of the future, both for the above reasons and for pedestrian safety reasons.
- The auto industry has spent years getting Americans in particular into bigger and heavier SUVs and trucks instead of cars, and reversing that trend will be difficult and potentially less lucrative for car companies.
- People generally don’t like being “told” what to drive, by anyone. Understandable!
- Having said that, Americans do have a tendency to buy cars for the worst day of the year—the road trip, the move across the country, the day the in-laws come to visit—and that means we often buy more cars than we need.
- The charging infrastructure isn’t where it needs to be yet, but it is getting better. And realistically, we probably won’t go “all-EV” by 2030 or whatever like governments and automakers expect; a more realistic scenario is a mix of drivetrains, including more hybrids, which means people who regularly drive very long distances will still have options.
- Nonetheless, very few of us seem to want low-range EVs like the 100-mile Mazda MX-30. Not in this country, anyway. Rational or not, getting people to mass-adopt low-range city cars will probably never happen.
I know that’s a lot to assume, but it feels like a realistic view of things from where we’re at now, in early 2023. So having said all of that, is the ideal electric range around 360 miles? I say hell yes, it absolutely is. They’re backed up by the Supercharger network, sure, but millions of Tesla Model 3 owners make that (or less) work pretty much all of the time. At 360 miles, you’d be able to get pretty far on most road trips. Daily driving won’t be a problem at all, either. Remember most Americans still drive about 35 miles a day at most. At 360 miles of range, you’re more than golden.
So while plenty of people are clamoring for EVs with 600 miles or more—and automakers are working to meet them there, albeit begrudgingly—what Hyundai has done is offer a car with a realistic and powerful amount of daily range that will meet pretty much all of your regular, daily needs. It’s enough to dissuade people away from their often irrational range anxieties, and coupled with the realities of regular charging at home and on the go, it’ll be plenty.
What do you think? I’m more interested in positing this as a realistic, good-faith question about driving needs, but if you need me to set up the “Change My Mind” table, I can go ahead and do it. What’s the ideal EV range to you?
As someone who has daily driven an e-golf for several years, what is the actual, worst case scenario, bare minimum range you will tolerate in a daily driver? Multiply than number by 1.67, and that will give you the EPA range to look for. If you can tolerate only going 100 miles on the highway in the winter with the heat at maximum after 7 years of ownership, you need a 167 mile ev. It will rarely ever be that bad, and then only temporarily. But it will never be worse than that.
300 is a good number. But, that should be worst-case – winter, highway. The IONIQ 6, in its long-range spec, is probably 250 worst-case, and that’s still mighty respectable.
My standard range AWD Mach E is rated for 211. Add in tires with actual grip, winter, commuting over a small mountain pass, 90% charge limit, and my reliable range is about 150 with a small safety buffer. Just enough for two trips, so I can run home to take care of something if I need to. It’s enough for my daily needs, but it couldn’t be our only car.
We live in a rural area, and like to do things out in the mountains. We have a hybrid for that stuff, and other longer or unplanned for trips. With infrastructure where it is, there is no plausible BEV range that would let us have only EVs.
To be my main vehicle, 50 miles, to be my only vehicle, 300 all weather miles hauling 6 people and 200 miles towing 6k. Which is why I’m a fan of plug in hybrids at this point
EU will have chargers for every 60 km on main roads.
Need to have:
2 hours @ 110 km/h + 60 km to next charger if broken = 280 km (also in cold weather)
Charging speeds in exces of 600 km/h = 22 min charge breaks.
Nice to have:
2 hours @ 130 km/h + 60 km to next charger if broken = 320 km (also in cold weather)
Charging speeds in exces of 900 km/h = 18 min charge breaks.
My wallet currently says:
2 hours @ 110 km/h + 60 km to next charger if broken = 280 km (a little less in cold weather)
Charging speeds around 400 km/h = 33 min charge breaks.
I’m on board with the 361 miles of range in the Hyundai. But I will note that the Tesla is delivering 4.2 seconds of acceleration….so if I had the choice even given the ugly Elon tax, I might go with the Tesla for the fun factor. But it’s nice to have choice.
But lets note some things: we need range because charging on the road sucks–chargers are hard to find, don’t charge at capacity when you can find them, and as such, take too long. Americans road trip more often than everyone imagines. Fix the charging problem and lots of the range issue becomes less an issue. That said, it’s totally reasonable to expect 300+ miles out of a car as it’s comparable with gas and that’s a normal ideal.
BUT there’s also the cold weather problem which is real. So 361 it is. I will tell you this, range is the thing I shop for, all other considerations be damned–range and fast charging and price.
If you are buying a truck (and intended to tow with it, then 500 miles is it. I’m sorry, yes hate me, but it’s the truth, because 250 miles towing range is reasonable. Esp since as it stands it appears that virtually all charging stations require unhitching the trailer to charge. Fun times. Now if we get to the point where all trailers have their own battery, then things change, but of course, then trailers will cost almost as much as car and we are back to square one.
Acceleration, even massive acceleration, gets pretty boring as the party trick, pretty quickly. I understand though, if one lives in a part of the country where the roads are flat and gridlike as far as the eye can see.
I drive a Compliance Car around town. It’s swell. Of course it has no range; ‘knew that going in. Cold weather range reduction is definitely a thing, but I wish to point-out two more things.
“It is said” that batteries do not like to operate near the top or bottom of their capacity and will suffer accordingly. What is the “happy” zone? 20% to 85%? 10% to 90%? Who knows? The takeaway is that we should, to the extent possible, avoid the unhappy zones, using them sparingly. So no, you don’t get the EPA range as a daily feature.
Secondly, I was surprised at the energy consumed by hill climbing. In my neighborhood one encounters mountain passes: Cahuenga, Newhall, Santa Susana, and especially Sepulveda. What about re-gen? It’s nice. It helps. But you do not “get your range back” on the descent. Keep this in mind when you hear “400 miles!”.
Apparently I’m an extreme outlier. 160 miles (with caveat). Specifically: “The ability to drive 75 miles an hour at 75-80 degrees Farenheit for 2 hours with just enough left to find a charging station.”
Really you should stand up and walk around every 2 hours. With Level 3 fast charging, that’s about a 20 minute stop. (I … think?) This would obviously be a midsized car or smaller CUV, not some giant SUV. I’m thinking half the battery of a Polestar 2 or Mach-E in roughly the same package.
400 miles is a good bogey.
Owned an EV.
As discussed, range really does decay at low temperatures.
400 is 300 in winter.
However, now waiting for solid state solution later in the decade.
The current state of battery technology is decidedly interim.
That new Lexus RX EV with the laughable 220 mile range for a premium vehicle will be the first Lexus model with a truly horrible residual value in ten years.
Obsolete the first day it was delivered.
300 is probably fine, but it is really the recharging time. Need to be able to get 300 miles again after like 10 minutes. I don’t want to hang out at a rest stop, I want the driving part of the trip over.
400 seems right to me. Long enough for a road trip and it’s a nice round number 🙂
I need about treefiddy.
The ‘correct’ amount of range is the wrong question.
The ‘minimum’ amount of range for a given use case is the right question.
And for me, the minimum range for my own use case of daily driving is about 200 miles/320km
That’s enough range for me to get through any day and have a buffer for things like A/C, heat and cold weather.
The winter ICE range loss in the Northeast is certainly noticeable. And I just spent the weekend replacing the exhaust on the Mazda 5, something I wouldn’t have to do on a BEV.
As a second or third car, a range of 150 – 200 miles would be more than acceptable. As a primary vehicle, more like 300 – 350.
I’ll get a used BEV, eventually…
Stupid question. The perfect EV range is dependent on the owners usage, the access to quick charging, the amount of other people close by with an EV. How yellow is the sun? Why ask stupid questions?
I owned the first gen Tesla S 85 and by 90k miles the range said 226, but effectively it was ~170 in the summer. 500 is much better than 361. Especially for families that travel. Recharge times are too slow for my mentality of “get’er done!”
I would be very happy with 150 miles and a small 4-seat coupe for less than $20-25K. I want the ev version of the cheap hatchbacks of the 1980s. So I can justify the purchase as a 3rd car for daily commutes and errands and leave the bigger road trip ICE vehicles in the garage.
About 300 miles from a compact CUV would be fine. I already live with a RAV4 that gets about that range driving sanely, more like 250 miles with more lead-footed drivers, and 185-200 miles towing a 15 foot popup camper. Or, 27 mpg, 24 mpg and 19-20 mpg respectively.
With that vehicle when towing we fill up pretty often. And it’s usually a 15-20 minute stop once we answer nature’s call and let the dogs do the same. So an EV wouldn’t be much of a change.
5 years ago when I’d just bought an EV, I would have thought the 360 miles of range sounded right, but at this point, I’ve realized that the 200-250 miles I have is really quite fine. Charging infrastructure and speed (especially at temperatures well below freezing) are far more of an issue- give me a battery that is as happy at -20C as it is at +20C and forget the extra capacity. The idea of spending 50% more on the battery, and hauling around 50% more battery weight to go from 240 to 360 miles of range, just to avoid a minor inconvenience 1-2 times a month is just silly.
“how much it’s crushing every other automaker in the design department”
{ looks at top image of a melted slug in car form }
{ side-eyes page }
(They’ve had some bangers lately, but that ain’t one of ’em.)
As for the actual question, though, I think matching ICE cars’ 400 miles is a good sweet spot for a regular car.
Side note: I really wish we’d start seeing more on-track range from high-performance EVs. Road car range is fine, but I like blowing time driving as fast as possible in funny-shaped circles.
Hold up. Ain’t you the parsh fan round here? This thing looks like a Porsche for cool people. Okay okay I went too far there. I’ll take it back.
Porsche’s butts have a defined shape beyond “slowly melting off the car.”
Agree to disagree, Stef. I think it looks pretty damn good.
The Ioniq 6 reminds me of the Infiniti J30, especially ones with the spoiler.
I agree, but I’ve never been down with dumpy butt car designs. Didn’t like the Infiniti J30, or earlier Mercedes CLS either.
Yeah, same. The front is fine. The rear is where this (and those other two you mentioned, FWIW) all falls apart.
Next thing you’re going to tell me you don’t like the Ford AU Falcon!
yeah, not feelin’ that one, either
This looks like the second generation Tiburon coupe. Except 4 doors. Which…..meh. Interesting throwback, but the original wasn’t a looker either. The first one with quad headlights looked like Mitsuoka was consulted for the styling.
I was VERY weirded out at first glance, but it’s grown on me. Waiting for it to hit the lot to see how it feels in the sheet metal.
Agreed. I love the 5, but the 6 looks like a dead fish, which incidentally looks a lot like a living fish, but is a much better insult.
I’ve driven an EV for 4 years and I will be happy with 250-300 miles EPA range, because I understand what that really means and it’ll work great for my use case. Range anxiety went away very quickly with actual driving.
When I was a kid we always refuelled our cars at home, you don’t have to be an eccentric billionaire – you just have to be a farmer. Most farmers have at least one tank for bulk fuel on the property – we had two, gas and diesel.
Yes both of which now are illegal without tens of thousands of dollars of safety equipment.
I don’t think I could ever complain about safety requirements for a flammable liquid that can contaminate the ground.
And you’re still going to get the tanks because you still need bulk fuel.
Do you have a source for that claim?
These aren’t in ground tanks. Most every farm sale has this same setup (1000 gal diesel, 250 or 500 gal gas) and there’s no forms to fill out, just a winning bid and waiting for the loader to put them on your trailer.
Cite your source – we don’t have this issue on our farm…
Yeah, even in California this is not the case. We are required to have a pre-cast concrete bathtub sort of thing that sits under the tank, but that’s about it. California environmental regs are pretty bananas about a lot of things, but farming related stuff is generally green flagged.
You can imagine how agriculture would grind to a halt if you had to drive your tractor to the gas station to fill up. Spend all day driving and then you have to fill up again. We farm with tracked vehicles, too, which have a top speed of approximately zero — it just wouldn’t work out.
I *am* interested in electric tractors, however. We can get electricity delivered even more easily than diesel, the dirt and dust of farming seems like it would favor fewer moving parts, and tractors are all about the torques which are electric motor’s forte. Farming seems like an ideal application of electric vehicles, so it’s surprising how slow it’s progressed.
With a combination of commuting, unexpected side trips, occasional night journeys, occasional road trips, potential dead-head miles to available chargers, and allowances for cold weather and degradation over the useful life, I’ve calculated the optimal EV range for me.
It’s exactly 420.69 miles.
I see what you did there…..
Insert Beavis and Butthead laughing
Haha. Ok Elon…
There’s no simple answer. Based on my experience:
-Most EV manufacturers suggest limiting charging to 90% to extend the life of the battery. This reduces range.
-Temperature also decreases range so you’re looking at 360 on a beautiful day. A 5 degree day in the Midwest can suddenly turn your easy round-trip into “Crap, I need to spend 20 minutes charging”.
-Neither of the above two points are really issues as long as there’s a reasonably quick and reliable way to charge vehicles away from the home and office.
In my general opinion, overall range is not as important as having a reliable and readily available charging network. My MX-5 has little less than a 12 gallon tank. I routinely refill at a half a tank. That doesn’t bother me because I can get gas anywhere and refill quickly. This is why EV’s are typically a great option for us city-dwellers (especially if you have dedicated parking to install a charger) but make less sense for those who live in rural Missouri and their job is 45 miles away.
Yes both of which now are illegal without tens of thousands of dollars of safety equipment.
VW recommeds that the ID.4 be charged to 80% on a routine basis and full for the occasional road trip.
Charging to 90% are usually meant for batteries with cobalt based chemistry, 100% for those with LFP (more weight but cheaper). But I think another big equaliser is active temperature control for the battery (vs 1st gen Leaf).
Unfortunately EVs are still an inferior product when compared to ICE–here’s a quick comparison with a Corolla:
Corolla vs EV:
Price: $20,000 vs $60,000
Refuel: 5 minutes vs 10 hours
Range: 500 miles vs 340 miles
Range drop in winter: 0% vs 30-50%
Range drop after 7 years: 0% vs 30-40%
New battery cost: $100 vs $20,000
DIY repairs allowed: Yes vs No
Can be remotely disabled: No vs Yes
Some of this is………….not accurate. At all. Just off the top of my head:
Price: The Chevrolet Bolt and Nissan Leaf start at $28,000
Refuel: Recharging from 0-100% on through a standard 110? Sure, 10 hours. Maybe more. Most electric vehicles can charge from 20-80% on a fast charger in about 20 minutes. That’s still longer than refueling but not 10 hours.
Range drop in winter: Gas cars absolutely get worse mileage in the winter than in the summer.
DIY Repairs: Sure…but what are you going to repair on an EV? There are considerably less moving parts on an EV. Plus, both ICE and EV vehicles are loaded with non-DIY computers which can absolutely prevent the vehicle from working.
New Battery Cost: A new 12v battery vs the lithium-ion pack which powers the vehicle is not even close to being equivalent comparison. C’mon.
Can be remotely disabled: OnStar can prevent an ICE vehicle from starting.
You’re also failing to consider the cost of regular maintenance on an ICE vehicle versus an EV. Guess which one wins that comparison?
Nice try, though.
Agreed. Many of these are inaccurate. Range in Winter suffers for both gas and electric. Hands down it is much faster to reenergize a car with an ICE engine. But for most of my driving, that range drop around town is not enough to affect me.
I honestly worry about all the fancy electrics and software driven features on my ID. 4 needing repair.
Charging on 110v takes about 80 hours for the ID. 4. Level two chargers are better, but no means fast. My wife went from 41% to 80% in five hours at work today. And there’s no guarantee a charging space will be available.
And while there are high speed chargers available, they are less plentiful. Level 2 is far more common.
Tesla got rid of its lead acid 12V and replaced it with a LFP + BMS.. much smaller still functions the same, but no with propreitory connector. I think they sell them about $70 a pop, which is about the same as lead acid equivalent.
Refuel: 15 minutes added to my morning commute because I always forget to get gas (standing in the cold, heat, rain, whatever) vs who cares, I’m asleep when it happens.
My range drop in my ICE is 25% in the winter.
I see gas mileage improvements in the winter–at least in highway driving. I suppose if I were driving in actually snowy conditions, that’s another thing, but road trips in heavy snow are rare for me and I have other concerns than range if I have to make such.
Have you ever driven an ICE car in the winter? Or one that’s more than a couple of years old? Both winter driving and age decrease a gas car’s range. I have an 11-year-old Subaru and in the best of conditions, highway driving, it can get just over 400 miles a tank, or about 30 or so mpg. In the winter, I have noticed that becomes about 350-360 miles of range for the same highway trip. But the real kicker comes during stop-and-go city/town driving. In mild weather (not using A/C, which can also decrease ICE range), I can get about the same 350 miles, but during the winter, it’s frequently barely over 300 miles. And it used to be better back when I bought it, when it was 7 years old.
Gas is formulated differently for the winter season. It is slightly less “powerful” than the blend you get in the wormer months.
I don’t know if they do this to fuel down south.
Fast charging that is charging at capacity will drop that to under an hour. Range drop is not going to be more than 30% unless you are dealing with below 10ºF daytime highs, in which case, your ICE car is also going to need special care, like an engine block heater and a plug and possibly special oil for those temp ranges. Range drop of EV batteries are FEDERALLY MANDATED to be warrantied for 8 years. If you see a range drop like that prior to 8 years, then you’ll get a free replacement. Batteries with upwards of 1M miles have seen drops of about 20%. As for repairs, note that EV repair costs overall are lower as there are less moving parts and the components are not nearly as complex. And I assure you that many ICE engines can be remotely disabled.
Plus: EV charge at home every damn night–start with a “full” tank every morning. ICE–nope. Many EVs are dual motor. An entire motor can fail and it will still run. Also, no oil changes. Fewer filters and other fluids to deal with, no belts, timing changes. No transmission to fail in most cases (one or two speed). Lower center of gravity, more stable car. No concern about the price of gas or which foreign country is trying to enforce a ban or prosecute a war over petro-monopolies, etc.
Please show me where you can get a brand new Corolla for $20k