“Get a Toyota.” These mere three words, sliced from our language with an economy and precision only Hemingway could match, represented the totality of my late father-in-law’s car-buying advice. A Chevy man since WWII, he came around (as so many did) to the value and reliability of Japanese cars as the Malaise Era was delivering peak ennui and the imports were striving to build top-quality machines. He acknowledged the superior reliability and durability of Japanese brands in general, but high above them all was Toyota. Looking for a truck? Get a Toyota. You need an economy car? Get a Toyota. Something sporty? Get a Toyota. Premium sedan? Get a Toyota (a Cressida, specifically). Because reliability. You can’t go wrong with a Toyota!
But of course, sometimes you can go wrong with a Toyota, or any other super definitely reliable brand. And the inverse is also true: examples of brands and models that “everyone knows” are totes unreliable still have their proponents that will tell you they can, in fact, be counted on. Tony does not have to fix it again!
And so, The Autopian Asks: what universally-regarded-as-reliable car was unreliable for you–or vice-versa?
To the comments!
2001 Land Rover Discovery. Owned it 6 years so far and only had to do head gaskets, cooling hoses and reservoir, thermostat, water pump, starter, lifters, y-pipe (has both cats in it), 4 o2 sensors, plugs, wires, coils, wiper stalk, front drive shaft, 4 wheel bearings, rotors and pads all around, front calipers, àbs control module, front brake line, front driver abs sensor 3 times, shocks and springs at all corners, steering damper, rear frame section welded, fuel rail and injectors…
Other than that it’s been pretty reliable.
Sounds like all you’re missing from the Land Rover experience is a speckling of intergranular corrosion and dissimilar metal corrosion
Or the random electrical issues… Mine started locking and unlocking the doors and opening and closing the sunroof one day. During a downpour….On the way to the dealership to get another issue fixed…
Awesome! This is the best comment
Chef’s kiss!
Honda Civic.
Granted I only had it for about a year but my 10 year old at the time 05 WRX never gave me any real issues. The only time it stranded me was when the battery died but it was an older battery anyway so that isn’t really the car’s fault.
Once in a while if you’d try to start it on a really damp day, it wouldn’t crank and you’d hear the tktktktktktktktktktktk sound of every relay in the car freaking out but if you cycled the key, it would always crank and start the second time. Also it did use oil but it never made any clouds of smoke so I don’t know where it was going. But other than that, it was great to me. I’d probably still have that car today if I didn’t find the one reinforcement hump underneath completely rotted through.
Same experience with my 03, “the MT is glass” 238K miles proves you wrong, The turbo will fail (see previous). I mean I took care of it, but still, only a flat tire prevented flawless daily driving. The only reason I’m getting rid of it is that the car is 20 years old and everything inside the car is tired and old. Not unlike me
I’ve never experienced a single problem with any of the several Chrysler PowerTech 4.7 V8s I’ve had. On the flipside, my wife and I leased a 2013 Subaru Outback that consumed copious amounts of oil. Enough to drop from full to triggering the oil level warning light during a 190 mile interstate drive.
Is the 4.7 considered unreliable? I’ve not encountered that sentiment previously. “Underpowered” is a common complaint for the older version, but they worked that out with the ’08 that I have.
I was surprised to recently discover that is a fairly common sentiment and mine is the minority. The whole “don’t buy a Chrysler x.7 engine” trope.
It all depends on how they are maintained. If issues, especially overheating, are addressed quickly, they hold up well. If they are neglected and overheated, they become money pits.
My 2012 Cruze Eco has been fairly reliable. Then again I’ve owned it since new, changed the oil every 7500 miles with full synthetic, changed the gear oil regularly, got good at DIY’ing water pumps that last from 30-70k miles (OEM made 78k, dealer botched installing the next two and it’s been two or three DIY since then) and have kept up with preventative maintenance such as cooling system hoses. Most importantly I’ve undercoated it since brand new. For a daily driven Northeast US car, it has very little rust.
Our 2013 RAV4 has been a tank. I’ve changed brakes, flushed fluids, changed rear shocks twice and installed a transmission cooler when we got our camper.
1994 Toyota Pickup (called the Hilux in other markets). I got it with 49K miles on it and it has 83K miles on it I think (been a while since I drove it). It has an electrical gremlin that causes the whole car (including the engine) to shut off for a couple seconds when I turn on a blinker when there is somewhat high electrical draw (lights, AC, heat, etc.).
Needs a new battery every couple years.
Apparently all of the grounds are good, personally I don’t understand the spicy magic that is electricity.
For some reason my 94 truck would burnt out the driver’s side headlights low beam every few months. Weird stuff.
When I ran into that on an XJ, it turned out that the grounding strap from engine block to the firewall had rotted almost through. Driver’s headlight grounded on fender, fender bolted to firewall, almost gone strap to rear of engine, strap from front of engine to negative post
I’ve been involved with The 24 Hours of Lemons racing series for years and it’s been interesting seeing which cars/engines have proven to be reliable or not there, because often times ones that are known to be reliable on the street have a bad track record in Lemons or vice versa.
Anything with a small block Chevy V8 or B-series Honda engine will likely do poorly in Lemons racing despite their repution for reliability on the street.
Conversely Alfa Romeos and Cadillac 4.9L V8s have done surprisingly well in Lemons whereas they’re not known for reliability on the street.
I mean, that makes sense? After all, the older a car gets, the brand becomes less important than that vehicle’s specific owner/usage/repair history.
Plus, relevant for 24 Hours of Lemons specifically, a car of a model with a reputation for reliability would have to be older or in worse shape than a car without such a reputation in order for them to have the same price
Aren’t those engines known for enjoying high revs?
B-Series Hondas do too but they puke head gaskets.
So I’m going to go two directions on my comment.
First: me personally, I’ve thankfully been lucky enough to own some pretty good and reliable vehicles. Of the 15 I’ve owned, only 1 or 2 would I consider to be unreliable, and I knew they would be going into it. However, I do want to name a transmission that gets a lot of flak…the 4l60e. Particularly in the hot rod and LS communities, 4l60es tend to get dismissed as fragile and easily broken. While I agree that 4l60es are most certainly *not* bulletproof, I also contend that for what they were built for (1/2 ton truck stuff), they’re great. My daily is a ‘96 GMC K1500 that gets used. Hard. It’s a farm truck with 230k miles and pretty much weekly hauls loads higher than it’s 8800lb tow rating. My experience (and from all I’ve read) is that stock application 4l60es tend to last 150-200k miles before needing rebuilt. That was the case with mine, and after that, it’s been hard at work, trouble-free. A guy down the street from me has a ‘95 C1500 with 550k miles on it, and his trans held up til 400k before needing a rebuild. Mileage like that tells me that 4l60es aren’t quite deserving their reputation.
Second: my other take on this question is actually not my car. It’s my parent’s ‘07 Civic. My uncle has been a Civic acolyte since the ‘90s, and when my mom traded in the minivan when we graduated, she wanted a Civic like his. Though she loves driving it, it has not at all lived up to the reliability reputation Civics are known for. In the 90k miles she’s put on it, i think it’s needed 2 starters, a couple batteries (though I’ll dismiss that because they buy cheap batteries), rear struts at least twice, a number of headlight bulbs, and several sets of brakes. Small stuff, relatively, but things that really shouldn’t be failing multiple times in under 100k miles. Plus, visibility isn’t great, the seating position is awful, interior materials feel bad, and just in general it isn’t a good car to drive. It doesn’t scream “good value”, it hasn’t been cheap to own for a few miles as she puts on it, and it’s disappointing because I generally do like Hondas. But this one isn’t great or even good.
In defense of the civic, 90k miles in 15 plus years on a daily driver tells me those weren’t easy miles.
My guess would be that it’s mostly used on short trips around town with little highway use.
Wear on things like tires, battery, starter, and brakes would be as much as or possibly more than a highway commuter with double the mileage.
A month later, I wanted to add my first car was a 07 Accord that I got 118,000m into its life. Same electrical gremlins. and mine was a highway warrior. Ate batteries, starters, and bulbs like gasoline
not sure if this counts, but I had a 2005 Dodge Magnum that I sold with 340K on it.
I can vouch for spitfires being reliable little cars due to their simplicity, I dalied one in HS.
I saw one of these on the road last weekend in near perfect shape. It was like seeing a functioning Blockbuster video. I almost cried.
I’m on my 4th VW in a row and never had any real issues with any of them. Of course I keep replacing them before they get too old for reasons unrelated to their mechanical failings.
1995 Honda Accord: An absolute pile.
I wasted a few months of my life on an older 90s Accord as well. It was barely 10 years old, but keeping up with mechanical repairs was pretty much impossible.
It seems like Accords are pretty much always best in class when new, but at some point when they get older they reach a tipping point where they seem to need everything all the time.
My unrestored 1980 Triumph Spitfire starts and drives every. single. time.
Only mod is a Weber Carb and header. Only work I had to do was a new Clutch master/slave. That little car just refuses to let me down.
Heck, the electronics even work.
Now that is surprising…a Spitfire?
I am just now trying to get rid of a Toyota Sienna that has demanded expensive repairs every year for a decade. I should have sold it ages ago, but each time I paid another huge bill I told myself that now, finally, *this* time, it would start showing that reputed Toyota reliability. Hope sprang eternal.
On the other hand, I have a Jaguar that has been absolutely robust through seven midwestern winters and counting.
I also have a 1952 MG TD that has not given me any trouble at all, but that car never sees anything worse than a mildly breezy spring day, so it doesn’t really count.
By far the least reliable car I had was an old MGB but that doesn’t qualify as “universally-regarded-as-reliable”. The several Mitsubishis I’ve owned left me stranded more than once too but they also fail to qualify.
Instead I’ll share our Toyota history:
My 2003 Toyota Tacoma – 326K miles over 12 years.
P0420 struck that truck continuously, countless O2 sensors and catalytic converters were replaced on that truck. Also wore through shifter pivot bushings every year or two. We had to take the head off twice because exhaust valve on Cyl3 would carbon up and start sticking. Oh, and I stretched the timing chain and jumped a tooth causing it to lose all compression the first year I owned it but since that happened in my driveway I can claim that that truck never left me stranded, not once.
Wife’s 2000 Toyota Corolla – 126K miles over 16 years.
Not a single mechanical issue. Seriously, the whole time we owned it the only part under the hood that failed was the windshield washer fluid reservoir. It started to dryrot and I replaced it at some time. I remember replacing the accessory belt at the same time “just because” but that car simply couldn’t have been more mechanically reliable. The interior on the other hand…well like all Corollas from that era the door cards deteriorated and the trim around the windows started to peel away.
We both drive Subies now, so far no head gasket issues.
I had a 2001 Toyota Sienna with the same P0420 problems. It also had a failed charcoal canister I had to replace. My opinion is that early 00’s Toyotas were highly overtuned emissions-wise to meet California standards. Those systems were terrible and unreliable in general.
Agreed, the P0420 never effected the driveability or efficiency of the engine and it typically took 15-18 mos after replacing everything for it to come back again so I’d just drive around with the CEL illuminated until time for my next inspection and replace it all again.
I don’t feel like researching it, but weren’t the charcoal cannisters in that era Toyotas really sensitive to ingesting liquid when you top-off the fuel? I vaguely remember hearing something to that effect…
I never had that issue. The only “Common Toyota Issue” my Taco decided to join in on back then was the stuck throttle fad. It wasn’t bad though, no calls to 911 but I did post a FB poll asking if I should. Instead I’d just tap the brakes every 5 mins to drag it back down to 65MPH until I got home and could figure out the problem. In my case it wasn’t floormats but the dealer installed cruise control had a cotter pin get bent out of shape and snagged which lodged the throttle plate open.
Yes they were
Honda’s in general. I’ve had 3 and unless they make an S2000 successor with the pure sex appeal of the first one I won’t be going back.
1991 Accord – Transmission died at 93,000 miles, which just so happened to be the day I was taking it to trade in on a 2008 Honda Civic.
1998 Accord – Gas pedal would become sticky after the car sat for 15-30 minutes. Started within the first year of ownership after purchased new from dealership. Repeated visits would “fix” it for 1-2 months and then the issue would reoccur. Got into the habit of lightly revving the engine to unstick the pedal before putting in gear. Otherwise you would shoot forward or backward at a much higher velocity than intended when the pedal would unstick.
2008 Civic – Weather stripping incorrectly installed on rear passenger door. Noticed when I saw a lake sloshing around on my rubber floor mats while backing out of the driveway. TSA to have the sun visors replaced because they would split and fall appart (The sun visors, really?!). A/C was NEVER able to cool the car properly in the Memphis summers which made it miserable to drive. The A/C eventually crapped out around year 6 and I had Honda repair it, but it didn’t improve the mediocre performance. The aux port died. The power window on the leaky door stopped working after the warranty expired (weather stripping was fixed under warranty). The drivers window would only work sometimes.
I passed the car down to my daughter at 9.5 years and 64k miles. She hated it because of the A/C and lack of Bluetooth. For a fully loaded car with factory Nav, the lack of Bluetooth seems like a big miss. We sold it to CarMax a few years later just to get rid of it and at that point the sunroof was falling apart. There was some metal rattling around in there. My wife replaced the aux port and the replacement died within a year. We also had to replace the gas gage in the instrument cluster. As I seem to recall, the colors reversed and the gage went from empty to full. It was bizarre.
I’ve had the opposite w/ Honda’s (most reliable car in my opinion) I think you had bad years though (outside of 1991-love those) because there are certain Honda’s that have bad years
My Hyundai has had absolutely 0 issues. Granted…it’s only at about 8,000 miles, but still. My GTI had already had emergency trips to the service bay 3-4 times before it hit that mark.
Honda Civic. Constant electical problems. That thing was a P.O.S headache.
Did buy the one I sold to CarMax? I swear that thing had electronics by Lucas.
Subaru Forester. It never broke down, but it burned so much oil I thought the dipstick was reading wrong the whole time I owned it because there was no way a 38k mile 2 year old car could burn so much oil…
My ’06 Outback needed a quart of oil every other tank of fuel near the end, when the head gasket sent it away from my life.
The 2011+ FB-engine equipped subarus had a lot of issues with this. My engine was replaced at 50k for oil consumption.
Bad experience with a Honda Civic. Still in therapy.
I leased an Alfa Romeo Giulia Ti Sport for four years, and it was rock solid the entire time. There aren’t any interesting stories for me to tell about its reliability, because it simply was reliable.
Probably my favorite car that I’ve ever bought new. If we hadn’t been moving out of state at the end of the lease, I would have purchased it and kept it forever. It made me smile every time I slid into the driver’s seat.
What does moving out of state have to do with letting the lease end?
My experience is that if you’re not a total moron and buy a Kia, and if you do a cursory pre purchase inspection, most cars made in the last 30 years will actually be quite reliable.
Reliable cars my family has owned lately:
Two 4.0 Jeep Cherokees
89 Comanche with 4.0
95 F150 with 300 six
92 Accord with f22
2003 Grand Caravan with 3.3
2004 Chevy Cavalier with 2.2 Ecotec
2004 Nissan Sentra
2007 Ford Expedition with the 5.4
Unreliable cars owned lately:
2008 Grand Caravan
Guess which one car out of these didn’t get as good of an inspection as it should have?
Even cars that shouldn’t be reliable (crappy minivan v6, 5.4 triton) are pretty good if they’ve been taken care of. Some cars(jeep 4.0, Ford 300) are likely to be reliable even if not taken care of. Most cars will be crap if they were treated like crap.
So I guess I’m saying that most anything can be surprisingly reliable. That 2003 minivan left us stranded I think exactly once in about 100k miles of driving. Most Toyotas can’t manage that feat.
I own an 11 year old Kia and my only issue has been 1 check engine light for a misfire that popped up briefly. Brakes at 100,000km, brake light bulbs and fluid changes. Hyundai/Kia seems engine dependent. My coworker with the 1.8 got a free new block, my 2.0 has been flawless.
Even cars with crap reliability after abuse from the previous owner can be un-crappified with enough care. My dad’s 2002 Civic had no maintenance records when he bought it, because it had simply had no maintenance, and he bought it just in time for everything to break. For several years it was a lemon, and it seemed like it was in the shop every month to have the parts cannon fired at something new.
But eventually the parts cannon hit the right things, and it’s been for the most part very reliable ever since. Timing belt just snapped at 260k miles though because we all forgot those need replacing, whoopsie… The repair bill hurts, but hey, it’s an investment into another 260k miles at this point, the car’s solid.
“most cars made in the last 30 years will actually be quite reliable.”
This will likely lose currency with each passing year. Automakers are as cheap, tech-obsessed and over-ambitious as George Lucas making the Phantom Menace. 30 years from now no one will see a current-day EV outside a history book. But an old air-cooled engine will still be running somewhere.
I’d agree. I think we’ll look back at the late 90’s and 2000’s (give or take a few years on each side) as the peak vehicle reliability era.
We had an ’87 Caprice Classic Brougham growing up that ate starters and had constant carb issues, left us stranded several times. My parents had had a bad run of American cars and were initially confident that they had finally bought one of the “good ones”, but ended up replacing it with a 1990 Subaru Loyale wagon that needed nothing but routine maintenance for the next 12 years.
Conversely, we also had a 1994 Lumina APV (guess they didn’t feel they were burned badly enough to totally boycott GM) that was dead reliable, despite having a poor reputation in general. Only issue was the windshield wipers would occasionally refuse to work, and the dealer was never able to trace the fault. But, a coating of RainX did a good job of compensating.
Personally, I had a Cadillac Fleetwood, granted it was purchased used at 9 years old with 80,000 miles, but, over the next 4 years and 50,000 miles, it needed valve cover gaskets, water pump, radiator, rear air suspension, transmission rebuild, digital dash rebuild, 4 power window regulators, turn signal relay, exhaust brackets, and new solenoids on the already rebuilt transmission. B-bodies in general were known for being a bit more fragile than their Ford Panther competition, the mechanics at my dad’s police department were eventually able to swap transmissions on Caprices in a couple hours as it became routine, but I had thought they were tougher than that, at least.
My mom’s friend had her brand new Camry overheat and start vomiting coolant the other day. Had to be rescued by my dad in his ’01 V70 (which, ironically, has done the exact same thing at one point, though at 222k miles).
<every single GM 3800 Series II owner between 1998 and 2004 has entered the chat, along with their intake manifold gaskets>
They will be joined shortly by every 3800 owner with the plastic coolant elbows.
Can confirm: Sheryl’s poor Oldsmobile LSS died at the hands of Midas and an intake crack, which caused the mighty 3800 to fall to its own coolant.
Some might say questionably mighty.
I had a GM 3.1 with the same problem.
Huh? They didn’t get replaced with the metal Dorman ones? I mean, probably the one good part Dorman made?
Don’t forget the 3400’s and 3100’s. The 3800 seemed great until Dexcool came around.
“They will be joined shortly by every 3800 owner with the plastic coolant elbows.”
Is it such a chore to replace those elbows with $10 metal ones?
https://zzperformance.com/products/aluminum-coolant-elbows
I never had any issues with the notorious 6 speed auto in my 2009 Escape. The electronics went to shit at 115,000 miles, but the transmission was still going strong.
Sounds like you need to go another rung down the ladder of automotive unreliability and buy a PowerShift Fiesta. Feeling lucky?
You’ve got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?
Nope, I’m not gonna push my luck twice. A guy in my taekwondo school has a Powershit Focus. With all the misery it has put him through I get why he needs to unwind by sparring and breaking boards.
Those transmissions were awful when new. How one has lasted this long is amazing.