Which Of These Two Deeply-Flawed Jeeps Should I Convert To Electric?

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“Stolen” Jeep or rusted-out Jeep — which should I convert to electric power? That’s the question that we — collectively as Autopians — must face today, for I have been flip-flopping on the decision for months. Now I come to you for guidance.

I’ve been wrenching on junky Jeeps for a while now, rebuilding AMC 360 V8 engines, replacing cracked cylinder heads on AMC straight-six enginesc, tuning carter W-0 carburetors on Willys Go-Devil motors, replacing synchros and bearings in manual transmissions, extracting broken exhaust studs, and on and on. While I’m far from an expert when it comes to internal combustion engine vehicle repair (given that I haven’t worked on much from this millennium), I’m ready to branch out. It’s time for an electric conversion.

This won’t be cheap, and it won’t be easy. But it will be happening, and soon (ish). The first issue I need to tackle is: I have to decide which vehicle to use as a platform for the build. Here are my options:

The Rusty FC From Washington

Perhaps my greatest achievement in life occurred almost exactly a year ago when I resurrected the rusty, long-dead 1958 Willys FC-170 you see in the video above. I probably sacrificed seven years of life expectancy from all the mouse feces I inhaled (and we can’t forget the trenchfoot I got while sleeping in my Land Cruiser), but it was somehow worth it. Just look at that $1,500 monster off-road for seven hours straight after having sat on a farm for probably 20 years (at least).

Anyway, I fell in love with the blue FC during that trip, and it was my intention to use it as the basis for an EV conversion. There’s only one issue: Someone offered me a nicer (but sketchier) FC after seeing me wrench on this old rustbucket; I’ll show you that later.

For now, I’ll present the case for using this FC as the platform for my EV build:

  • It’s long, so there’s plenty of room for batteries.
  • It’s wide. The frame is wider than that of the “stolen” Jeep, so I could fit a Tesla drive unit between the rails.
  • The paperwork is all there.
  • The frame is solid.
  • It’s worthless, so I’m not foregoing much money by keeping it (more on cost later).
  • It has “patina,” and is just generally interesting/compelling to look at/read about.
  • I have a sentimental attachment to it after that epic trip.

Now for the cons:

  • It’s rusted out. To fix the body and make it look good would cost many thousands of dollars, which would far offset whatever money I save by selling the “stolen” Jeep and keeping this worthless one.
    • If I spend $15,000 on the EV conversion, the Jeep will still only be worth a few grand, max. It’ll be lost money.
  • The windshield is cracked. This will be expensive to replace, as the glass is curved; replacements are hard to find.
  • The vehicle does run and drive as-is, so it’d be throwing out a working powertrain.

The ‘Stolen’ Jeep

This little red FC looks to be in decent shape. I bought it from a fairly sketchy seller in a more-than-fairly sketchy warehouse in suburban Michigan. The seller had seen my friends and me wrenching on ol’ blue, and figured maybe I wanted another. He figured right.

I ignored about a thousand red flags and bought the short 1957 FC for $2,000. It came with no title, and it has no VIN. In other words, I cannot register this vehicle — at least not until I figure this paperwork thing out. I do have a line on a cheap 1957 old FC-150 being sold for parts, with a title; I could create a Ship Of Theseus situation and use the other Jeep’s paperwork…

I met my red Jeep’s previous owner, a rambunctious 86 year-old man who lives on a farm in the middle of suburbia. It really is a bizzare place; here’s this older couple living in a small cottage on a few acres, and just on the other side of their fence sit dozens of condos and strip malls. This gentleman, a cranky but decent guy who still wrenches on his John Deere tractor, made it clear that his land would never fall to the developers. “I got all this land on a trust!” he exclaimed to me, clearly passionate about the issue.

Anyway, none of that is really relevant, other than to indicate that I don’t actually think my FC was stolen. This older gentleman said he owned it for decades and gave it to the man who sold it to me. “You actually paid money for that piece of shit?” he asked me, angry with the guy he’d sold it to. “I can’t believe he charged you for that scrap.”

I actually don’t think the Jeep is that bad. It sure looks nicer than the blue FC-170, even if much of its body is just patch panels lathered in Bondo:

Anyway, let’s talk about the pros and cons of using this thing as the basis for my electric vehicle build. First, the pros:

  • The body looks nice.
  • The interior looks mostly done.
  • The engine is already seized, so who cares if I throw it out.
  • If I spend $15,000 converting this thing to an electric vehicle, it might still be worth some amount of money. I could recoup some of the costs if I sell it down the line, since it looks okay.

Now for the cons:

  • No title, no VIN. Registering this Jeep will be a pain in the arse.
  • It’s short; room for batteries would be limited.
  • It’s narrow, so fitting a Tesla drive unit between the frame rails could be a challenge.
  • It’s a big lie; it looks nice, but much of it is riveted sheetmetal and bondo.
  • I’d be foregoing the value of this Jeep (I’d guess it’s around $5,000) by selling the worthless blue Jeep instead.

It’s a tough choice. The blue Jeep has a great story behind it, and it has paperwork. It’s crappy, but it’s at least honest about it. Plus, if I sell the red Jeep, I’ll make $5,000. That’s not really much if you compare it to the $15,000 it might take to convert one of these Jeeps to electric. And certainly, if I plan to actually make the blue Jeep look nice, that’s going to cost another $5,000+ if I had to guess. So in the end, the blue Jeep would be pricier if I decided I wanted to fix it up. I could just keep it as-is, and have an EV-converted ol’ rustbucket. I kind of like the way it looks now, to be honest. Why does it have to be completely rust-free and nice to be worthy of an electric vehicle conversion? Maybe that’s a silly question.

I guess part of the issue could be that using a rough-looking Jeep as a basis for an electric vehicle conversion guarantees that the entire investment will be a moneypit. No matter how nice that blue Jeep drives, if it looks like it does, it may not be worth anything. But what if I don’t sell it? I could also just suck it up and do the bodywork on it; a nice EV-converted FC-170 would be worth something, I bet. Or I could just convert the red one and drive it as-is after I figure out the paperwork issue, and after I figure out how to fit a Tesla drive unit between those frame rails. Oh, and after I make sure it’s not completely made of Bondo.

I really don’t know what the move is, here.

 

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Jason Torchinsky

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90 thoughts on “Which Of These Two Deeply-Flawed Jeeps Should I Convert To Electric?”

  1. What happened to the hybrid plan? If you have to one, do the red. But seriously, convert an XJ instead. I need you to do a good write up on an XJ conversion so I can emulate it. To make it complicated, convert an automatic. You can do it; I’m counting on you.

  2. Another vote for the blue Jeep. The larger size will make a better overall EV.

    Much of the body of blue boy us gone. So go whole hog…. Do the non-Tracy thing: redo the body. Maybe in carbon fiber…. All new. A true high tech EV NON- SHITBOX…. I know this goes against DT convention. But you are now a successful (we’re pulling for you) publishing maven, and the world is your oyster….

    The Elon Musk. Not Red Green….

  4. I’d vote for the red, but only because I think the blue one should retain it’s miraculously-resurrected drivetrain. That’s a gold-medal Waste of Time Olympics winner (and I say that with the highest praise for the work, and all praise to Scott from Cold War Motors).

  5. Ole Blue is the way to go. I would rather get ten Tetanus shots than deal with the DMV. Not trying to sound like Igor, but are those windshields the same size? Abbe Normal?

  6. I know in a different article I said ditch the blue one and convert the red one but the additional information makes the decision not quite so obvious.

    One thing to consider on the titling problem is whether you might be able to title and register the red one as a homebuilt/kit car after the EV conversion instead of trying to title it as the original Jeep.

    However, the issues regarding frame width/length and the ability to fit a Tesla drive unit plus adequate batteries are not minor. That could be a game-changer. Measure well before you decide as the decision may be made for you.

    Also as some others have said, you might find a bigger mess when tearing apart the red one than you realize. Plus, you can certainly sell the red one right now for more than you can the blue one.

    One other possibility to consider, and it’s realistic because you have a nationwide following: if the blue frame isn’t really in much worse shape than the red, what are the chances a kind reader could help you find a matching cab with at least decent sheet metal off a junker in say, Arizona, and do a cab swap? I’m guessing with the body-on-frame construction the swap is not something I would necessarily call easy, but it should be reasonably straightforward. In any case I’m betting it’s easier than all the bodywork you would have to do to get the current blue cab bodywork taken care of. The bed is easy to deal with; that rusted out floor will look just fine with a decent hardwood replacement.

  7. Blue. It has a salvageable driveline that someone, somewhere will want. You can recoup some of your investment. As others have said, the frame is better suited to what you want to do. The red one is just a nightmare of flaky bondo ready to dissolve around you.

    3. Now I think you’ve raised a very important question: Why have wheels at all, when you could equip it with tracks! Find some old tank or APV and fit the tracks from it to the FC!

    4. Are there hub motors big enough that could power the front two wheels independently? Also, have you considered using Ford’s electric crate motor for the rear?

  9. Barring you being the seller in another sketchy Bill of Sale transaction, you’ll sort the red’s paperwork regardless, so that’s moot.

    I would say to dream bigger and do both, preferably by organizing sponsorship opportunities with 2 different aftermarket EV suppliers to compare and contrast their wares.

    If I must pick just one, do the red. You’ll feel much worse if something goes horribly wrong with blue.

  10. Tough call. But it occurs to me that the red Jeep’s short wheelbase plus electric power might equal wheelies. I vote wheelies.

    But you should keep the blue one too, I think.

      1. OOf, I looked at my profile real quick and it made me update my last name. Had to delete and redo with my preferred user. FYI
        Stubby Dave!

  11. Seems obvious to me? Blue. Even if you got the red one registered, it still doesn’t have as many Pros, and it seems to have a lot more cons.

    You bring up selling each of them a few times, but you need to ask yourself… How likely are you to actually part with it after converting it to an EV? Based on your current collection, I’m not seeing that as likely. I’m not even into Jeeps, but if I had a running EV-converted FC, I’d almost certainly daily it… That might not be as feasible for folks with a commute longer than 2 miles, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  12. At first I was why not do both? Hear me out. Cobble the two together into one mega Jeep.

    Blue is the main chassis, Red is the donor.

    The next question is what is worth to you? I know there is cost to covert vs resale. I never think of that, I don’t have the money for that level of investor car, rather will this something I will enjoy and not put myself in the poor house?

    2. This seems like the obvious solution. Both FCs appear ready for the scrapyard. It seems like the only realistic chance of having a decent, street legal FC EV is combining both into a single vehicle.

      This project will be a money pit no matter which vehicle is chosen. If the goal is to make money by building and selling a one-off electric FC, sell both and come up with a better idea. If the goal is to build a cool vehicle (and create interesting content in the process), combine these into one vehicle.

      Also, given the condition of the vehicles, is it possible they are worth more money dead than alive (i.e. selling individual parts instead of the whole vehicle)? If that is the case, it seems like the way to minimize the cost of this project would be to combine both into a single vehicle and part out the leftovers.

  13. They are both going to be money pits.

    The end value of either is just going to be the scrap value of the EV motor/batteries.

    Convert which ever one is more entertaining for us.

    I vote the red one since it is going to be more of a headache (aka story) with all the title issues.

  14. The swap will be easier in the blue Jeep. While that red one looks OK, I’m willing to bet it’s either in the same or worse shape once you get under all that bondo and pop-riveted garbage. And let’s face it, it’s not like there’s a tone of complex curves in the body. I have faith in you DT, that you could suss out the bodywork.

  15. Blue. You have some good history with it and will never recover the raw monetary value with a DIY EV swap, much less opportunity cost. Keep it, make it an EV, and actually be able to legally enjoy it without the paperwork headaches. You’re already going to pour enough blood, sweat, and beers into the EV conversion.

  16. Since no one asked, heres my opinion:
    As you said in the article, the blue jeep is honest about being crappy, and will accommodate all the batteries and drives without having to seriously redesign the frame. You have a good idea of the work tis gonna take going into this. The red jeep is a lair. Its all red flags and bondo and I fear that the deeper you dig into it, the more lies your going to find and that will mean more work you have to do. And then your still gonna have to modify the frame do what you need it to do.
    There’s gonna be a ton of work on whichever one you chose so why not go with the one that is up front about it.

    On an emotional track, the blue jeep rose from the dead to be with you while the red jeep seems to have just shown up one day with a sketchy backstory. Just sorting out the paperwork will take time and effort, if its even legally possible. So I would stick with the blue jeep thats already proven it wants to live. Also I wouldn’t worry about the money too much, after all this was always a “can this be done” project and not a “how can I make money on a conversion” project.

    my two rusty cents.

  17. I would say the red FC. You want something that is a bit better shape to convert. I don’t think you want to be doing as much of your normal piecing it back together when it has been converted to electric.

    I vote you try and revive the blue one back to a good drivable state. I know it starts, but it could be better.

  19. Why not put electric power train in both?
    Hear me out…
    1. Blue: Add tesla drive components, aka super fast Matt’s Jaguar (check him out on youtube folks!)
    2. Red: Add different drive, i.e. a small SUV .. use enough of the donor EV chassis to register it with the donor vehicle’s VIN.

  20. Is the frame difference significant enough that you can’t swap the red jeep’s cab on to the blue jeep’s frame? Seems like that would give you what you want.

    You’d also then have a frame you could put the blue Jeep’s engine into, and swap some other Jeep’s body on to.

      1. WRT the frames, steel tubing, a welder and a chopsaw can take care of that. If you can weld well enough, the frame can be any shape you want.

        My only question is whether either of them has a good enough body as a starting point. Tesla hardware in this will mean that Our Lady of Blessed Acceleration will not fail us. That’s a recipe for a potential Autopian ex Mortus.

      2. You have an arc-welder and time and a masochistic approach toward vehicle maintenance and restoration. The frame and cab thing doesn’t sound like a problem that couldn’t be solved.

  21. Blue.

    If you save it you’re keeping one more on the road. If you don’t – it will be a parts truck or never get finished.

    Also it has a FAR better frame for an electric conversion. Willys Wagon frame > CJ frame. Every day.

    I’d take the 3/4 ton over the 1/2 ton. That’s just me. Someone out there needs the drivetrain – that’s worth more than the Jeep.

    1. I thought the same.. sell any leftovers to recoup costs and then you’ll still have both stories to tell because you’ll have parts from both vehicles.

    2. Use parts from both. Invite Fred and Dave from DED to help on getting one good vehicle together as far as frame and body. Get Kevin Erickson with the Electrollite as a consultant.
      Keep the patina!
      Here in MA you can apply for a new title. Maybe use enough Blue to use that?

      1. I say red Jeep but I don’t know how difficult things are in Michigan paperwork wise. If you decide to go with the blue one I would be more than happy to buy the red one if that old man would sign an affidavit for me.

    3. I’d say trash the rusted cab and bed, use the better cab and use the professionals and amateurs available to workshop cost-effective ideas for a new better bed. It’s already getting modified so why not take it further? Basic EV conversion with just the car changing is being done by many already and I don’t think the Autopian strives to be basic.

  23. I would use the red FC and sell the Blue one. It’s just too far gone.

    That, and you can always extend the frame and the bed on the Red FC.

  24. Some states will register a vehicle with a bill of sale. If it came down to it, you could also take the VIN tag from the blue one and put it on the red one.

  25. Damn, man. I honestly don’t know which to go with.

    About the best advice I can give is when I have a decision like this between two equally valid/wanted choices I flip a coin and if I’m happy with the answer I’ve already decided to do that one, if I’m unhappy with it the subconsciously I decided to do the other one.
    Of course, from all I know of you you’d probably end up deciding on neither coin toss and buy a third.

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