Here at The Morning Dump World Data Center, our diligent staff of news elves is committed to avoiding the pitfalls of other morning automotive news roundups by embracing nuance and refusing to paint with a broad brush. Also, when it comes to the EV market, please allow me to paint a picture with a brush as wide as the Río de la Plata.
Consumers who wanted an EV as fast as they could get their hands on one probably already have an EV. It’s debatable, but I think a lot of people who were even tilted toward an EV purchase likely have entered the market as well. That brings us to the third tranche of people who could use an electric car without issue (people with regular commutes and charging ability at/near their homes) and are open to it. Today’s advice, based on the latest data, is for them.
Speaking of data, the EPA has issued final rules on fuel economy requirements, and they’re not too bad if you’re an automaker. The car industry won this round, but I think it’s still aggressive enough to be achievable.
Life is a game of numbers and odds, but that doesn’t mean you should submit yourself to fate. The most successful out there tilt the universe to improve their odds, which is what Elon Musk is trying to do with his compensation hanging in the balance. The National Automobile Dealers Association is trying to do the same by getting the latest rules on dealers blocked.
Why Used EVs Are Such A Good Deal, And Why I’d Be Hesitant To Buy A New One
The big existential question for me in the automotive world is not whether Chinese EV automakers will crush everyone else, it’s whether or not this generation of electric car is worth buying.
It varies a lot by automaker, but the general sense I have is that the answer is: probably not. On the extreme end of advancement are cars like the Lucid Air, Rivian R1S/T, and the Tesla Model Y. These all represent approximately the best you’re going to get out of the extant anode/cathode chemistry. Will these cars continue to improve and get better over time? Absolutely. Could something come after that’s just much better and cheaper? I think there’s a strong possibility that the answer is yes.
For most other automakers, even their best electric cars are imperfect in some way. GM’s Ultium platform is too heavy, Ford’s EVs are fine but also interim products, and most of the European cars are too expensive for what you get. Basically all the Japanese EVs are also-ran vehicles. Probably the best non-Tesla/Lucid/Rivian EVs are from Hyundai-Kia-Genesis, but those vehicles don’t have incentives if you buy one and are thus $7,500 more expensive than everything else.
Here’s why a next-gen EV might be better, depending on the company:
- It might be cheaper. Tax incentives aren’t going anywhere and almost every foreign automaker is trying to build a plant in the United States to make EVs that qualify for tax credits.
- The tech might improve dramatically. Toyota is working on solid-state batteries and they’re not alone. Elon Musk is trying to build cars with even more advanced driverless aids.
You can also add to these concerns the fact that we’ve been in the middle of a massive price war that’s made new electric cars cheaper while also undercutting people who just bought electric cars by lowering their residual values, which means they’ll be worth less when it’s time to sell.
Ok, so what are you to do with this information if you need a car now?
Lease an electric car.
Leasing is not ideal in every situation, but at the moment the lease deals are insane for new EVs for a number of reasons. The biggest one is a loophole that allows cars not built in North America to qualify for the $7,500 tax credit. Also, if the tech gets way better or prices drop it’s not really of big concern to you since your price is locked in already.
Buy a used electric car.
The latest Manheim Used Value Index is out and it shows the value of a used EV is down 16.0% year-over-year in May, compared to just an 11.6% adjustment for non-EVs. The massive drops in new EV pricing, combined with Hertz offloading thousands of Teslas, means the premium for these cars has been absorbed to the point that you’d have to get a lemon to be unable to get your value back.
Obviously, there are some big exceptions here (the Model Y and new Equinox EV are competitively priced, and cars like the Mach-E do have a lot of incentives), but I think this advice works for most people.
Fuel Economy Rules Should Result In 50.4 MPG By 2031
Many groups lobbied hard against huge increases in fuel economy requirements that were initially proposed by the Biden Administration, which initially called for big fines and changes that would see the nation’s average fuel economy for most passenger vehicles to rise to 58 mpg by 2032. The new requirements revise that down to about 50.4 mpg by 2031, and 35 mpg for big trucks and vans.
Here’s what the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration is saying about the changes:
In this final rule, fuel economy will increase 2% per year for model years 2027-2031 for passenger cars, while light trucks will increase 2% per year for model years 2029-2031. These increases will bring the average light-duty vehicle fuel economy up to approximately 50.4 miles per gallon by model year 2031, saving passenger car and light truck owners more than $600 in fuel over the lifetime of their vehicles
Heavy-duty pickup truck and van fuel efficiency will increase 10% per year for model years 2030-2032 and 8% per year for model years 2033-2035. This will result in a fleetwide average of approximately 35 miles per gallon by model year 2035, saving heavy-duty pickup and van owners more than $700 in fuel over the lifetime of their vehicles.
“Not only will these new standards save Americans money at the pump every time they fill up, they will also decrease harmful pollution and make America less reliant on foreign oil,” U.S. Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg said. “These standards will save car owners more than $600 in gasoline costs over the lifetime of their vehicle.”
The other big news here is that the massively proposed fines have been pared back a lot. It’s possible that many automakers can avoid them altogether. Obviously, automakers are happy about this. Here’s the head of the big nationwide lobbying group in a Reuters article via the Detroit Free Press:
John Bozzella, who heads the Alliance for Automotive Innovation trade group representing major automakers, praised the revisions that will dramatically reduce projected penalties that his members had feared.
“Those fines wouldn’t have produced any environmental benefits or additional fuel economy and would’ve foolishly diverted automaker capital away from the massive investments required by the electric vehicle transition,” Bozzella said.
Again, environmentalists aren’t happy (one told Reuters that NHTSA had “caved to automaker pressure.”)
I consider myself an environmentalist and I’m not too disturbed by the rule change. These seem like much more achievable goals and this will push way more automakers/people towards hybrids. Plus, it’s not like this is going to be achievable only with hybrids, automakers are going to have to sell a lot of electric cars to make the math work.
And, finally, politics plays into this a lot. The Biden Administration seems to want inflation down so it’s not a campaign issue and so that the Fed cuts rates this summer, thus setting off a potential positive economic swing that makes consumers feel better about the economy.
Tesla Needs Small Shareholder Stans For $56 Billion Payday
If you voted your TSLA shares, you have the chance to attend our Giga Texas tour with @elonmusk & @woodhaus2 as your guides → https://t.co/DrGCyD4xQN
— Tesla (@Tesla) May 28, 2024
Tesla CEO Elon Musk seems kinda desperate to get small shareholders to back his bid to get the highest paycheck in human history, even as some larger shareholders are indicating they’re going to vote against Musk.
I have no Tesla shares directly, so it’s a not-my-pig/not-my-farm type of situation. I do share Musk’s penchant for LOLs, and so whatever is going to be the most amusing outcome is sort of the outcome I want, which could be Tesla losing and Elon Musk performatively quitting the company.
The gamble Musk is making (and, in our version of capitalism it makes 100% sense for him to do whatever he can to get $56 billion) is that smaller shareholders probably love him and don’t want to see him quit.
Although small investors have an array of opinions, experts in corporate vote campaigns say the size and CEO-friendly nature of many individual investors at Tesla make them an obvious target.
“The man ends up 10x-ing my investment and he’s given nothing? It doesn’t seem right or fair,” said Andrew Theyken Bench, a lawyer in Allentown, Pennsylvania with fewer than 5,000 Tesla shares, who voted by proxy with management on all items at the meeting, including Musk’s pay.
The big issue is that “retail” investors don’t typically vote in these things, so Tesla needs to incentivize them, which explains the contest in the tweet above.
Some Dealers Don’t Like The Idea Of Consumer Protection
The Federal Trade Commission issued rules last year to try to protect consumers from specific types of dealership behavior, including sneaking in random fees and products into the final cost.
Dealers are trying to kill this rule by using Congress to specify in the FTC’s new budget that it can’t spend any money rolling out or enforcing the rule according to Automotive News:
U.S. House subcommittee on June 5 advanced a $23.6 billion Financial Services and General Government Appropriations bill that includes $388.7 million in FTC funding for the fiscal year ending Sept. 30, 2025 — and prohibits any of that money from being spent rolling out or enforcing the CARS Rule.
FTC spokesperson Jay Mayfield said the agency had no comment on the bill.
The full House Appropriations Committee has yet to vote on the legislation. But Chairman Tom Cole, R-Okla., said prior to the subcommittee’s vote June 5 the measure made “sensible cuts to federal financial and consumer protection agencies and prohibits funding for their overreaching, harmful, regulatory policies.”
As a reminder, these “harmful” regulatory policies include banning bait-and-switch claims, advertising vehicles that are not on the lot as available, and misleading buyers about the availability of discounts/rebates.
What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD
I’m a big fan of Jamie xx and his band The xx. He’s got a new album coming out later summer and, when it’s out, I’ll be sure to share a track. I’m actually such a fan of Jamie xx that I excitedly volunteered to clear a track from one of his albums for a commercial project I was working on, which ended up being an enormous, almost 5-month-long PITA. It sucked so hard and I had to spend so much time groveling to Brian Wilson’s lawyers. And, yet, I still am a fan of the band.
The Big Question
What’s the best used EV deal you’ve seen? Or new EV lease?
I’m going to go for a different response and tell everyone looking for a 2nd or 3rd car to look at used Mazda MX-30s. They’re getting down into the low 20s/high teens and could go even lower if you qualify for any tax incentives.
Remember the knock on them was that their price was terrible for the ~100 mile range, but for less than half original MSRP and only two years old they are super nice inside and would make for a great commuter. Plus you can say you have an EV that goes more than 3 times as far as David’s Leaf!
They are still not worth it. You can find Bolts for that price with much better range. 100 miles even for just commuting is terrible.
Yeah the Bolt is the better overall value. But if you’re in the majority of Americans for whom 100 miles would work for their daily commute, the MX-30 isn’t a bad option as a second/third car. The Bolt can’t really be your only car either with its poor charging speed.
Also, interior and exterior design is a big advantage for the MX-30. To put it gently, the Bolt isn’t winning any beauty contests for either the interior or exterior. The facelift was an improvement for sure but it still has the look of an economy car.
I was faced with the choice between leasing a new EV and buying an used one and decided to buy a CPO ’22 Polestar 2 with 20k miles on it. It still has two years and 30k left on the original warranty and the CPO warranty added two extra years and unlimited miles. At almost half of its original price and no sales tax for EVs in NJ, I think it was a pretty good deal.
Solid. I’m about to turn my 3 y/o XC40 Recharge lease in for folks like you. Buying it at market price would save me thousands vs. buying out my lease. We’re likely going to buy a lightly used EV this summer.
I was faced with the choice between leasing a new EV and buying an used one and decided to buy a CPO ’22 Polestar 2 with 20k miles on it. It still has two years and 30k left on the original warranty and the CPO warranty added two extra years and unlimited miles. At almost half of its original price and no sales tax for EVs in NJ, I think it was a pretty good deal.
Solid. I’m about to turn my 3 y/o XC40 Recharge lease in for folks like you. Buying it at market price would save me thousands vs. buying out my lease. We’re likely going to buy a lightly used EV this summer.
If the PT Cruiser can legally be a Truck then I imagine the average fuel economy in 2031 will be 35 MPG across the board.
If the PT Cruiser can legally be a Truck then I imagine the average fuel economy in 2031 will be 35 MPG across the board.
Allow me to disagree. There will never be a “good enough” generation of EVs to buy, as these things will keep evolving like smartphones do.
Buying a deeply depretiated one is a hell of a risk, as you (probably) won’t be equipped to do any fixing on old high-voltage batteries and system (like you could with a dirt-cheap depreciated BMW).
Enjoy your new lifetime lease situation – that’s the price of progress
As long as you don’t plan on keeping a used EV for a super long time they are still a safe bet. The minimum battery warranty is 8 years/100k miles, and covers much more than the battery itself. So getting a 2 year old used EV gives you 6 more years of coverage unless you drive a ton. Kia/Hyundai and several others are 10 years/100k. My 5 year old Kia Niro EV shows no signs of battery degradation.
We will need to figure out what to do about these cars for later owners- it’s not sustainable for there to be a tsunami of vehicles turning into bricks. Battery remanufacturing and refurbishment policies probably need to be mandated.
I think “good enough” is something that each consumer needs to judge, in the same way they would judge that for an ICE vehicle. Maybe you’ve decided that a BEV will never be “good enough” for you, and that’s fine but in that case you aren’t in the market or the target for this info.
The author is arguing that right now, it makes sense to lease if looking at new vehicles, especially if it lets you get a vehicle that you want but otherwise wouldn’t qualify for the $7500. Not only will that change as automakers respond to the on-shoring requirements of the IRA, but we’re at a point in time where development in cell energy density, heat generation, and cycle life is rapidly increasing, so each subsequent generation or update of a vehicle is getting substantially better battery, motor & inverter tech which can manifest as more range, faster charging, more performance, or lower cost. Therefore, let the automaker or the banks eat the difference between what you pay and the vehicle depreciation for the first few years, since it can be substantial especially with the rate of improvement.
Also, maybe fixing high-voltage batteries isn’t common outside of specialized shops now, but neither was working on fuel injection systems, automatic transmissions etc as they entered the market either.
Why won’t there be a “good enough” generation? We don’t know yet.
Smartphones, despite what the manufacturers will tell us, have matured and the additional capabilities of new releases today are not really notable – certainly not compared to the regular leaps in what a new phone offered ten years ago.
Eventually EVs will mature- and the odds are that those batteries will not depreciate as rapidly or in as risky a fashion as what we have now- new or used. Toyota’s solid state batteries and all that.
Using your logic, you can argue that ICE vehicles will never be “good enough”. Safety standards keep moving, drivetrains keep evolving, interior content keeps evolving, etc. Let’s face it, newer and better is a real thing for pretty much everything. If you need a new car and an EV fits your circumstances, I don’t think it’s a worse choice than the ICE equivalent, if the price is right.
“There will never be a “good enough” generation of EVs to buy, as these things will keep evolving like smartphones do.”
But we have had ‘good enough’ smartphones to be worth buying for a good few years now. I really don’t understand why so many people spend huge amounts on bleeding edge phones, when the ~£100 ones are perfectly adequate for about 5 years use, if not a bit more if you’re undemanding.
Meh, my 2017 Bolt has already paid for about 1/2 its purchase cost in fuel/maintenance savings vs. the ICE car it replaced. If it makes it another 100k miles without issues, it’ll pay for itself in the running cost savings. I’d say that’s certainly “good enough”. That said, I don’t care for new software/phones/etc, so no need to upgrade to the “software defined vehicle”, yuck
Allow me to disagree. There will never be a “good enough” generation of EVs to buy, as these things will keep evolving like smartphones do.
Buying a deeply depretiated one is a hell of a risk, as you (probably) won’t be equipped to do any fixing on old high-voltage batteries and system (like you could with a dirt-cheap depreciated BMW).
Enjoy your new lifetime lease situation – that’s the price of progress
As long as you don’t plan on keeping a used EV for a super long time they are still a safe bet. The minimum battery warranty is 8 years/100k miles, and covers much more than the battery itself. So getting a 2 year old used EV gives you 6 more years of coverage unless you drive a ton. Kia/Hyundai and several others are 10 years/100k. My 5 year old Kia Niro EV shows no signs of battery degradation.
We will need to figure out what to do about these cars for later owners- it’s not sustainable for there to be a tsunami of vehicles turning into bricks. Battery remanufacturing and refurbishment policies probably need to be mandated.
I think “good enough” is something that each consumer needs to judge, in the same way they would judge that for an ICE vehicle. Maybe you’ve decided that a BEV will never be “good enough” for you, and that’s fine but in that case you aren’t in the market or the target for this info.
The author is arguing that right now, it makes sense to lease if looking at new vehicles, especially if it lets you get a vehicle that you want but otherwise wouldn’t qualify for the $7500. Not only will that change as automakers respond to the on-shoring requirements of the IRA, but we’re at a point in time where development in cell energy density, heat generation, and cycle life is rapidly increasing, so each subsequent generation or update of a vehicle is getting substantially better battery, motor & inverter tech which can manifest as more range, faster charging, more performance, or lower cost. Therefore, let the automaker or the banks eat the difference between what you pay and the vehicle depreciation for the first few years, since it can be substantial especially with the rate of improvement.
Also, maybe fixing high-voltage batteries isn’t common outside of specialized shops now, but neither was working on fuel injection systems, automatic transmissions etc as they entered the market either.
Why won’t there be a “good enough” generation? We don’t know yet.
Smartphones, despite what the manufacturers will tell us, have matured and the additional capabilities of new releases today are not really notable – certainly not compared to the regular leaps in what a new phone offered ten years ago.
Eventually EVs will mature- and the odds are that those batteries will not depreciate as rapidly or in as risky a fashion as what we have now- new or used. Toyota’s solid state batteries and all that.
Using your logic, you can argue that ICE vehicles will never be “good enough”. Safety standards keep moving, drivetrains keep evolving, interior content keeps evolving, etc. Let’s face it, newer and better is a real thing for pretty much everything. If you need a new car and an EV fits your circumstances, I don’t think it’s a worse choice than the ICE equivalent, if the price is right.
“There will never be a “good enough” generation of EVs to buy, as these things will keep evolving like smartphones do.”
But we have had ‘good enough’ smartphones to be worth buying for a good few years now. I really don’t understand why so many people spend huge amounts on bleeding edge phones, when the ~£100 ones are perfectly adequate for about 5 years use, if not a bit more if you’re undemanding.
Meh, my 2017 Bolt has already paid for about 1/2 its purchase cost in fuel/maintenance savings vs. the ICE car it replaced. If it makes it another 100k miles without issues, it’ll pay for itself in the running cost savings. I’d say that’s certainly “good enough”. That said, I don’t care for new software/phones/etc, so no need to upgrade to the “software defined vehicle”, yuck
“The man ends up 10x-ing my investment and he’s given nothing? It doesn’t seem right or fair,”
I’m no mathematician, but I think there are a few numbers between nothing and 56 billion.
In addition to the fact that Musk already owns vast shares of the company so EVERYTHING he did to increase share price has already resulted in vast gains for him personally.
I agree, there has to be a number between $0 and $56 billion that makes more sense. He doesn’t need (or deserve) 25% share of Tesla. I think his mind is already onto other things like AI and is unlikely to be interested in cars anymore.
Something people forget in the Musk payday argument is that he collects $0 salary from Tesla and TSLA doesn’t pay a dividend. He has been operating as CEO with no new Tesla compensation since at least 2018. That may explain part of his apparent detachment.
My proposal; Send the robotics and AI portions of Tesla into Musk’s new xAI company. Let that company handle the risk/rewards of getting FSD and AI correct. Find a new CEO for Tesla that acts like a rational adult rather than a chaotic startup madman. Send Musk out with a modest golden parachute with a big carrot if he solves FSD.
“The man ends up 10x-ing my investment and he’s given nothing? It doesn’t seem right or fair,”
I’m no mathematician, but I think there are a few numbers between nothing and 56 billion.
In addition to the fact that Musk already owns vast shares of the company so EVERYTHING he did to increase share price has already resulted in vast gains for him personally.
I agree, there has to be a number between $0 and $56 billion that makes more sense. He doesn’t need (or deserve) 25% share of Tesla. I think his mind is already onto other things like AI and is unlikely to be interested in cars anymore.
Something people forget in the Musk payday argument is that he collects $0 salary from Tesla and TSLA doesn’t pay a dividend. He has been operating as CEO with no new Tesla compensation since at least 2018. That may explain part of his apparent detachment.
My proposal; Send the robotics and AI portions of Tesla into Musk’s new xAI company. Let that company handle the risk/rewards of getting FSD and AI correct. Find a new CEO for Tesla that acts like a rational adult rather than a chaotic startup madman. Send Musk out with a modest golden parachute with a big carrot if he solves FSD.
This has been my thought whenever the house I have for sale on VA sells to either lease an EV since the deals are really good right now or to just buy a used one since the resale value on EV’s has plummeted.
With my FJ having over 150k on it and my Cummins having over 250k on it it would be nice to have something newer that I would have to worry about less maintenance with. Crap oil changes alone on the Cummins take 12 quarts and it is burning about a quart or so every 1k miles or so. Even the FJ take 6.5 quarts and I do oil changes every ~5-7k miles. I also put rotella T6 in both of those which isn’t a cheap oil. Also driving 45 miles one way to work is a lot of miles per year.
Just sucks not really many EV’s out there that strike my fancy currently hoping the Rivian R3 actually becomes a thing. I like ioniq 5 but as I have said before I don’t care that battery coolant needs to be changed every 30k miles I would want less maintenance with my appliance mobile that is taking me to work. Really only ev I am currently interested in is probably the polestar 2 because it is the only one that looks like a normal car not a blob and is a bit more sporty.
I just bought a ’22 CPO Polestar 2 about a month ago. Loving it so far and see far fewer of them on the road than Tesla Model 3s which are everywhere.
Yeah reason why I like the Polestar 2 you don’t seem to see many of them though I did see more when I was working around DC around Chicago land though I may have only seen one or 2 on the road but also might be because the closet dealers are in Detroit and Minnesota. But yeah used ones with all packages seem to be going for like 30k which seems like a lot of vehicle for the price. If I do get one hopefully I can get a slightly used 23 or 24 by the time I am looking.
The cupholder situation in that car is a war crime though.
How they could design a car with only one functional cupholder up front despite the space to create any design they wanted to is beyond me and one of many reasons I couldn’t daily a Polestar 2. I love the way they look but there’s not enough function to justify the form.
There are plenty of 3D printed cupholders out there to make or buy.
That’s a terrible solution though.
I must be missing something… Isn’t there a cupholder in the center console, too? Just not easy enough to use?
Definitely its biggest interior flaw but I had to ask myself if cupholders would be a dealbreaker. I usually drink out of an bicycle water bottle so that fits in the door pocket and I let my passenger use the one cupholder that is easily accessible. Of course there is the extra cupholder in the center console but you have to keep the cover raised when using and I’d prefer to rest my elbow there instead.
This has been my thought whenever the house I have for sale on VA sells to either lease an EV since the deals are really good right now or to just buy a used one since the resale value on EV’s has plummeted.
With my FJ having over 150k on it and my Cummins having over 250k on it it would be nice to have something newer that I would have to worry about less maintenance with. Crap oil changes alone on the Cummins take 12 quarts and it is burning about a quart or so every 1k miles or so. Even the FJ take 6.5 quarts and I do oil changes every ~5-7k miles. I also put rotella T6 in both of those which isn’t a cheap oil. Also driving 45 miles one way to work is a lot of miles per year.
Just sucks not really many EV’s out there that strike my fancy currently hoping the Rivian R3 actually becomes a thing. I like ioniq 5 but as I have said before I don’t care that battery coolant needs to be changed every 30k miles I would want less maintenance with my appliance mobile that is taking me to work. Really only ev I am currently interested in is probably the polestar 2 because it is the only one that looks like a normal car not a blob and is a bit more sporty.
I just bought a ’22 CPO Polestar 2 about a month ago. Loving it so far and see far fewer of them on the road than Tesla Model 3s which are everywhere.
Yeah reason why I like the Polestar 2 you don’t seem to see many of them though I did see more when I was working around DC around Chicago land though I may have only seen one or 2 on the road but also might be because the closet dealers are in Detroit and Minnesota. But yeah used ones with all packages seem to be going for like 30k which seems like a lot of vehicle for the price. If I do get one hopefully I can get a slightly used 23 or 24 by the time I am looking.
The cupholder situation in that car is a war crime though.
How they could design a car with only one functional cupholder up front despite the space to create any design they wanted to is beyond me and one of many reasons I couldn’t daily a Polestar 2. I love the way they look but there’s not enough function to justify the form.
There are plenty of 3D printed cupholders out there to make or buy.
That’s a terrible solution though.
I must be missing something… Isn’t there a cupholder in the center console, too? Just not easy enough to use?
Definitely its biggest interior flaw but I had to ask myself if cupholders would be a dealbreaker. I usually drink out of an bicycle water bottle so that fits in the door pocket and I let my passenger use the one cupholder that is easily accessible. Of course there is the extra cupholder in the center console but you have to keep the cover raised when using and I’d prefer to rest my elbow there instead.
I’m currently looking at both. Kia EV6s are going for pretty darn good lease deals, depending on length of lease, but there are used ones that are even more tempting. Found a GT-Line with almost 100k miles listed for 19,500, but they’ve already included the tax credit. Between that feeling shady and the miles, I passed. There are enough around the same price with lower mileage and dealers I’d rather work with.
I also ran across a dealership that specializes in lemon buybacks offering Mach Es and Lightnings at pretty reasonable prices, but some of the histories give me pause (in addition to disliking some things about the Mach E in general). They had a GT Performance for $33k, but it had repeat visits for the same issues, so I didn’t trust that it was fully repaired after the return.
That is my concern with these early model year EV’s they most seem to have some type of software bugs or they constantly go back in for the same repairs over and over again. So I think if I buy used I will look for a 3rd or 4th model year vehicle. Guess this really goes for any new cars nowadays but it seems EV’s have a bit more issues could just be because they are under a microscope and “newer” tech.
I don’t know if these were actually software bugs or anything that would affect the model as a whole. It looked like they reinstalled the battery, bled the coolant, replaced the junction box, and reprogrammed the charger module. They had to do all the physical stuff twice before the return, as well as significantly correct the alignment at least once, which I hope was not because of the fancy magneride suspension, but I wonder if it was.
They said it was all tested and fixed, but they said that each time the first owner took it in…
Yeah any time suspension seems to have some type of electrical or air control it just seems like something that will break later on and be replaced with standard shocks/struts and springs. Also with that vehicle going back multiple times for the same issues yeah I would run away especially if you said these were specialized in lemon vehicles that one may just be a true lemon.
I’m currently looking at both. Kia EV6s are going for pretty darn good lease deals, depending on length of lease, but there are used ones that are even more tempting. Found a GT-Line with almost 100k miles listed for 19,500, but they’ve already included the tax credit. Between that feeling shady and the miles, I passed. There are enough around the same price with lower mileage and dealers I’d rather work with.
I also ran across a dealership that specializes in lemon buybacks offering Mach Es and Lightnings at pretty reasonable prices, but some of the histories give me pause (in addition to disliking some things about the Mach E in general). They had a GT Performance for $33k, but it had repeat visits for the same issues, so I didn’t trust that it was fully repaired after the return.
That is my concern with these early model year EV’s they most seem to have some type of software bugs or they constantly go back in for the same repairs over and over again. So I think if I buy used I will look for a 3rd or 4th model year vehicle. Guess this really goes for any new cars nowadays but it seems EV’s have a bit more issues could just be because they are under a microscope and “newer” tech.
I don’t know if these were actually software bugs or anything that would affect the model as a whole. It looked like they reinstalled the battery, bled the coolant, replaced the junction box, and reprogrammed the charger module. They had to do all the physical stuff twice before the return, as well as significantly correct the alignment at least once, which I hope was not because of the fancy magneride suspension, but I wonder if it was.
They said it was all tested and fixed, but they said that each time the first owner took it in…
Yeah any time suspension seems to have some type of electrical or air control it just seems like something that will break later on and be replaced with standard shocks/struts and springs. Also with that vehicle going back multiple times for the same issues yeah I would run away especially if you said these were specialized in lemon vehicles that one may just be a true lemon.
Leasing an EV has always been the sensible decision and will remain the sensible decision.
Leasing an EV has always been the sensible decision and will remain the sensible decision.
Best EV lease deal I saw? 2024 Ioniq 5 Limited for $316/mo $0 down, 24 months. I was trying to get it, but unfortunately it was one of those scam ads for only 1 specific car. But I have also seen deals for the Ioniq 5 SEL for $99 plus around $3-4k down. This was a few months ago in Colorado.
Best EV lease deal I saw? 2024 Ioniq 5 Limited for $316/mo $0 down, 24 months. I was trying to get it, but unfortunately it was one of those scam ads for only 1 specific car. But I have also seen deals for the Ioniq 5 SEL for $99 plus around $3-4k down. This was a few months ago in Colorado.
Agreed that some specific present EV’s are sensible purchases. All the ones listed above are packaging marvels with lots of storage. They’ll be useful for years even with a degraded battery. Which since Lucid, Rivian and Tesla all shared some people at various times, shouldn’t be that big an issue. Tesla especially has shown they can make a long lasting pack.
Agreed that some specific present EV’s are sensible purchases. All the ones listed above are packaging marvels with lots of storage. They’ll be useful for years even with a degraded battery. Which since Lucid, Rivian and Tesla all shared some people at various times, shouldn’t be that big an issue. Tesla especially has shown they can make a long lasting pack.
Noting a typo “Why Used EVs Are Such A Good Deal, Any Why I’d Be Hesitant To Buy A New One” should be “Why Used EVs Are Such A Good Deal, AnD Why I’d Be Hesitant To Buy A New One”
I bought a used EV before it was cool and there were credits involved, but I think the best deals are actually on used Chevy Bolt EVs, there are many under $20k, most are only about 5-7 years old, and the older ones all got new batteries with more capacity than before, but the market deems them cheap so cheap they are.
Comparatively you can get a used Chevy Bolt with comparable miles and twice the range as say a same year/mileage e-Golf for slightly less, or, it’s crazy. Actually Konas Electrics are a decent price too, the e-Golfs and the like should be at least $5k cheaper.
Yeah some of the older-gen EVs are still sitting too high, even with credits. Numerous 125 mile range EVs trying to sell for $12k or more(e-golfs, but also Fiat 500e and don’t even ask about Mini Cooper SE) when you can get something with 200 miles of range for the same or a couple grand more.
Noting a typo “Why Used EVs Are Such A Good Deal, Any Why I’d Be Hesitant To Buy A New One” should be “Why Used EVs Are Such A Good Deal, AnD Why I’d Be Hesitant To Buy A New One”
I bought a used EV before it was cool and there were credits involved, but I think the best deals are actually on used Chevy Bolt EVs, there are many under $20k, most are only about 5-7 years old, and the older ones all got new batteries with more capacity than before, but the market deems them cheap so cheap they are.
Comparatively you can get a used Chevy Bolt with comparable miles and twice the range as say a same year/mileage e-Golf for slightly less, or, it’s crazy. Actually Konas Electrics are a decent price too, the e-Golfs and the like should be at least $5k cheaper.
Yeah some of the older-gen EVs are still sitting too high, even with credits. Numerous 125 mile range EVs trying to sell for $12k or more(e-golfs, but also Fiat 500e and don’t even ask about Mini Cooper SE) when you can get something with 200 miles of range for the same or a couple grand more.
I’ve bought 3 EVs. All used. One nice thing about buying a used Tesla from Tesla is that you get some time added to the full warrantee.
I’ve bought 3 EVs. All used. One nice thing about buying a used Tesla from Tesla is that you get some time added to the full warrantee.
I assume these are the administrative “mpgs” that have zero basis in reality.
Bringing my truck to 35 mpg would save me $700 every 6 months, let alone over the lifetime of the vehicle.
The savings numbers they list don’t compute at all. If light trucks averaged 50.4 mpg, the savings would be astronomical.
That’s because using their fuzzy math, the current product mix already averages 40 something mpg I believe.
The actual number is something like 26 mpg; I’d be interested to know what the 50.4 target equates to in real world numbers.
There is an AP article from last Friday “Real-world mileage standard for new vehicles rising to 38 mpg in 2031 under new Biden rule”.
So if 50.4 turns into 38 for cars, 35 turns into 26.4 for trucks. (75.4%)
I think maybe the NHTSA numbers are what the vehicle could get at a steady 55 mph with the air conditioning off, so not completely fuzzy.
The optimistic numbers are based on the original MPG calculations in the 1970s. Not entirely sure how that procedure was carried out, but it was certainly not reflective of actual conditions. Window sticker numbers have been revised downward to be more realistic a couple times.
I just assume any number published by the federal government is cooked so long it’s nothing but a lump of carbon. Except my tax bill, or course.
I assume these are the administrative “mpgs” that have zero basis in reality.
Bringing my truck to 35 mpg would save me $700 every 6 months, let alone over the lifetime of the vehicle.
The savings numbers they list don’t compute at all. If light trucks averaged 50.4 mpg, the savings would be astronomical.
That’s because using their fuzzy math, the current product mix already averages 40 something mpg I believe.
The actual number is something like 26 mpg; I’d be interested to know what the 50.4 target equates to in real world numbers.
There is an AP article from last Friday “Real-world mileage standard for new vehicles rising to 38 mpg in 2031 under new Biden rule”.
So if 50.4 turns into 38 for cars, 35 turns into 26.4 for trucks. (75.4%)
I think maybe the NHTSA numbers are what the vehicle could get at a steady 55 mph with the air conditioning off, so not completely fuzzy.
The optimistic numbers are based on the original MPG calculations in the 1970s. Not entirely sure how that procedure was carried out, but it was certainly not reflective of actual conditions. Window sticker numbers have been revised downward to be more realistic a couple times.
I just assume any number published by the federal government is cooked so long it’s nothing but a lump of carbon. Except my tax bill, or course.